Just seen NEW GM commercial!!!

[ROBBDOGG1986]

Originally Posted by Supermans

You could not possibly have read very much of the thread in a few minutes.. Trust me, take your time and read more than one page and look over the petty comments on the last page that caused the thread to be closed. You simply have to look at the facts of how the loan was paid back and you can make your own decision. I still don't believe you understand what happened behind the scenes.

Well I skimmed over it like u said, there were good points on each side! I guess it's kinda like how people are saying the world is gonna end in 2012 and then some say it won't.... I can't really do anything about either situation. What I'm saying is I don't feel effected by it, I don't really understand it to begin with not to mention there is way too much to read lol so ya, but I do appreciate your help on seeing the whole thing, guess only time will tell what's really going on

[Mr. Wyndham]

Let this be a fair warning that even a LICK of political discussion will get this thread closed.

[Craig]

Pot, meet kettle. People certainly do believe whatever they want to believe, that's for sure. So there's ONE thing we agree on.

In spite of these loans being "repaid" GM still owes the taxpayers around $43.5 billion dollars. We're told this will be paid back when the government sells their 61% stake sometime after the IPO. To recoup the full $43.5B will require the new GM to have a market capitalization of around $71 billion.

GM's highest market cap in it's history? $52.5 billion, in 2000. So they only need to exceed that by 40% or so. This doesn't sound like too rosy an outlook for me.

The government shares GM's optimism. The DOT & Treasury have revised estimated taxpayer losses from the auto bailouts down to "only" around $8 billion which is still quite optimistic IMO. But hey, what's a few billion amongst friends. In 21st century Bailout Nation that's hardly more than a rounding error.

I stand by all the information I posted in this and the other thread. What I will do is apologize for the rude and confrontational way some of it was presented, with the caveat that some of the other contributors are guilty of this as well.

[HeatherR]

Originally Posted by wavrun2000

The only propaganda I hear is just these post. I think it is great that GM did not go under because the amount of jobs that would be loss would be huge. Maybe I am blinded by the fact that I use to live in a town that was built around a GM factory. And when that factory was closed basically the whole town was out of a job. Not to mention all the suppliers that were linked to the factory. So to see GM not go under and have that happen to many small American towns make me happy. Not to mention it makes me proud to buy a car that was made and engineered here in America.

So true. Like I have said before I hate that GM was in a situation that they needed the governments help, but I also grew up in a town that was supported by a GM plant and know the impact they have. No one in my family worked there (My dad actually operates a BMW shop), but that plant is very important to the ENTIRE area. The thought of allowing GM to implode would have been devastating to many Americans...not just the current employees.

And if anyone thinks that the government is calling the day-to-day shots at GM...You are the one falling prey to the propoganda! If you think the current CEO is working with the current administration then you really don't know much about him.

[navmaxlp]

Originally Posted by Supermans

I bought my Camaro before the Government takeover. Am a proud owner of it. Remember that the current Camaro has been under development for many years before the Government takeover. I am interested in the Chevy Volt, that too was concieved under the old management, however all these tactics being used by our administration/regime is simply propaganda aimed at those less educated who follow blindly in many ways. Those that do understand what is behind the commercial and still support the way the Government runs GM as do many of the moderators of this site do so because of very strong loyalties with the company. However even thir loyalty can be broken if tactics like these continue to be used and so forth at some point in time. The great thing about our country is we all don't have to follow any leader blindly and we can all have our own opinions about issues and be able to have them and not criticize others who think differently. This issue is far larger than just a simple commercial aimed to put GM's government takeover in better light. Much deeper.

You keep talking about facts and how people got it wrong. Please enlighten me with the facts. I don't want to hear a lot of biased opinion but, facts. Please tell me exactly where the money came from and how GM is misleading the public. If GM is lying, please tell me the truth, free of opinion.

[Blackbean]

I saw a picture of the Camaro on the Wiki,and all the companies who supply parts to make it.Imagine that entire assembly collapsing because a viable, dynamic corporation couldn't borrow money to reorganize itself .
I got interested in GM 10 years ago,when I read an editorial in,ENGINEERING TODAY.The editor rented a GM car and was impressed by it's level of engineering and basically, discovered that American cars were as good as the imports,and in many ways better.After years of owning various GM cars and trucks,I agree.
If you are old enough to remember,the government backed loans for Chrysler when everyone thought they were dead,and their stock sold for $2.00.They survived and prospered for 20yrs until this current financial meltdown.
I trust GM enough to have already preordered a 2011 Camaro,and to everyone involved in the entire process,I salute you.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by wavrun2000

The only propaganda I hear is just these post. I think it is great that GM did not go under because the amount of jobs that would be loss would be huge. Maybe I am blinded by the fact that I use to live in a town that was built around a GM factory. And when that factory was closed basically the whole town was out of a job. Not to mention all the suppliers that were linked to the factory. So to see GM not go under and have that happen to many small American towns make me happy. Not to mention it makes me proud to buy a car that was made and engineered here in America.

You're right, the government should just bail out EVERY failed company. Then we'll all be employed, rich and happy. You do realize your American car was engineered in Australia and built in Canada, don't you?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Craig

You're right, the government should just bail out EVERY failed company. Then we'll all be employed, rich and happy. You do realize your American car was engineered in Australia and built in Canada, don't you?

Maybe if Americans cared to buy AMERICAN, or the gov't would care to impose import tariffs like every other country on the planet we wouldn't have to worry about 'bailing out' companies...

Do YOU realize that it was conceptualized, designed, and partially engineered here? Do you realize it is on a GLOBAL platform, but the profit, and recognition go to the American arm? Not to mention the US taxes paid every step of the way.

EDIT: RobbDogg -- there is no reason not to be proud of General Motors right now. They are turning out fantastic product, focusing on customer needs, and working towards avoiding the mistakes that caused them trouble in the first place...among many other positive attributes. Is everything rainbows and lollipops? No, sadly...but don't ever become a pessimist.

[Blackbean]

Did you know that the Harley V-Rod engine was designed by German Porshe,The Buell 1125,uses a Austrian engine,built by Rotax,the Camaro's brakes are Italian, and the radio is Japanese.
Look up the phrase, GLOBAL ECONOMY,and you'll see that everything you use is built by the lowest bidder.Quality and cost are really all that matters in business,to achieve making a profit for stockholders.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by navmaxlp

You keep talking about facts and how people got it wrong. Please enlighten me with the facts. I don't want to hear a lot of biased opinion but, facts. Please tell me exactly where the money came from and how GM is misleading the public. If GM is lying, please tell me the truth, free of opinion.

According to GM's own documents, filed with the SEC, the loan is being paid back with unspent TARP funds. Please see page 26.

http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/0911...8-K/dex992.htm

To summarize, $16.4B of bailout money was placed in an escrow account. They used $2.8B of it to resolve the Delphi bankruptcy. As the document states they intend to drawdown this account further to pay off this loan. When the account expires in June GM will pocket what's left. GM's commercial states that they've paid back their government loan. While technically correct it leaves out the fact that they still owe us $43.5 billion dollars. The assertion that we'll be paid back in full when the government sells their 61% equity stake in the company after the IPO makes some pretty big assumptions about what this company will be worth (see my previous post).

[wavrun2000]

Originally Posted by Craig

You're right, the government should just bail out EVERY failed company. Then we'll all be employed, rich and happy. You do realize your American car was engineered in Australia and built in Canada, don't you?

Easy there. First if you notice no where does it say that I own a Camaro and last time I checked the Corvette was not made or engineered in Australia. Second I am not saying bail out every failing company. Just ones that employ thousands of American and have a direct affect on many other companies (suppliers).

[Sax1031]

Good business move. Bad marketing strategy.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Maybe if Americans cared to buy AMERICAN, or the gov't would care to impose import tariffs like every other country on the planet we wouldn't have to worry about 'bailing out' companies...

Do YOU realize that it was conceptualized, designed, and partially engineered here? Do you realize it is on a GLOBAL platform, but the profit, and recognition go to the American arm? Not to mention the US taxes paid every step of the way.

EDIT: RobbDogg -- there is no reason not to be proud of General Motors right now. They are turning out fantastic product, focusing on customer needs, and working towards avoiding the mistakes that caused them trouble in the first place...among many other positive attributes. Is everything rainbows and lollipops? No, sadly...but don't ever become a pessimist.

DAMN SKIPPY!!!!!!!!!!!

[chevy 3]

Well superman that alot of properg you're tossing.or I might
not be reading it wright.gover or not most just don't mind
the government helping chevy out. I for one say if chevy
tells me thay paid the lone that's good for me.no I'm not going
to read you're chevy hater crap .though it prob make cents to afew.
This c5 site is for the positive not negative mabe the mustangs site
is more you're speed.sorry just a chevy fan AND DAM PROUD!