GM pays back US & Canadian loans way early

[Blade]

Supermans - Do you own a GM automobile?

[duder4thgen]

Originally Posted by bigearl

First let me say I don't want GM to fail, and I think they have what it takes to succeed. I also want the whole process to stay above board and honest. The Government has a whole task force on cars now. We own 61% of GM's stock.

Fixed.

Originally Posted by HDDAN

Yes, I do remember, and you are right about this. IT WAS THE SUB PRIME MESS THAT DODD AND FRANK CREATED THAT CAUSED THIS RECESSION.

I'd argue the subprime mess was just the culmination of a bigger problem- rock bottom interest rates set by the fed for waaaaayyyy too long, too many people and businesses having access to money they shouldn't have, and wayyyyy to much of it. And you can blame that on Clinton (D) with a Republican majority, Bush (R) with a Republican majority, and Bush (R) with a Democrat majority. Plenty enough blame to cover both main political parties with some to spare.

Originally Posted by ssump29

For one it ain't my money, I paid my taxes to the government.

Our government is supposed to be nothing more than a representation of the people, and not a separate entity or business, so whether it's in the hands of the treasury via the IRS, or in your bank account, it is still your money, your country, your government.
--------------------------------------------------------------

I think this entire thread is a good example of why we should have the least amount of political or government involvement in private or public companies as possible. As yall can see, it turns into nothing more than a giant pissing match between decent people with no clear cut 'right' answer as to what should have or needs to be done.

Honestly it was pretty shady for GM to handle the bailout money this way, but given the position they've been put and put themselves into, I can't really see any other good way for them to go about it. It's a crap sandwich all around. The best thing anyone could hope for is GM's relatively certain return to profitability, and our govt. making enough back on stock sales once they go public again to cover our complete investment, with interest.

And then just let GM be a car company, by itself.

[GoldBowtie]

Some points to remember:

Grassley sounds like an IDIOT and is an embarrassment to the Republican Party

A payment is a payment --- GM has LESS cash today than yesterday and the Govt. has MORE today than yesterday. Doesn't even matter if it was paid with Fifties or Hundreds, either!!

GM has paid all the "LOANS" owed --- the rest of the Billions are in the form of STOCK certificates (about 61% of all the stock). Maybe the Govt. will sell and make a PROFIT on their investment and maybe not. IT'S TOO SOON TO TELL, RIGHT!!

So if you don't like the fact that GM needed help and the Govt. stepped in, suck it up and buy what you want (probably wouldn't have been GM anyway) --- but jobs, and maybe a few lives, were saved ---- and the Govt. will end up in good shape from this deal.

[bigearl]

Originally Posted by ssump29

Again it's not YOUR money once you get your taxes filed and get whatever money back that you are going to get or pay whatever in, your finished you have no say. Consider it an expense to live. Otherwise I guess you can complain about how Nike, Verizon and any other company you spend your money with, chooses what they want to spend their money on. I mean because after all it's YOUR money right that they are spending?

I think you are as far off base as you can possibly be on how the Government of the U.S. works. It's a representative republic, so "we"(people who vote) elect people who are then allowed to make decisions on how to raise and spend tax money. Because we elect these people, we are given the right to try to influence elected officials. We have EVERY right to discuss how tax money is spent and we have EVERY right to try to influence our elected official's decisions on spending. The elected official still has the right to make their own decision, and then we have the right to vote them out if enough people disagree with how the official decides things.

It's nothing AT ALL like the private enterprises you list. Not even in the same ballpark. For instance, I don't HAVE to buy Nike. I don't HAVE to own stock in Nike. I can make a 1x purchase of Nike shoes and that can be the limit of my interaction. I have no choice but to participate in the tax structure of America for my entire life unless I want to leave the country. That's why I'm allowed to participate in choosing someone to represent me.

I hope none of this comes off as personal, but you really are in need of Civics 101.

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Are you saying that we should all just shut-up, bend over and take whatever the govt. plans on giving us?

No I'm not saying that at all, but I just think unless there is FORCEFUL action taken nothing is gonna change. Words become just that at a certain point. I hate government and want less of it, but no matter what we say or do they are going to impose their will on us.

I guess I'm just tired of all this talk about how voting changes things and all this crap because it doesn't. I wish some stiff opposition would come along and punch the government in its face, take it over and then actually do the people's will. But I have come to the terms and realize this will never happen. As long as I'm free and can make as much money as I'm making now without them messing with that then I'm ok with giving up the fight of thinking government will change.

As long as I can help keep them out the private sector then I'm good. But if they cross that line into the private sector then you will see a radical come out.

[hair10]

Originally Posted by Supermans

So you believe everything CNN, NBC, and CBS have to say?

CNN more than the others (they are usually more "just the facts,ma'am" more than the others) but no, not entirely. That's why I said I'd have to do more research first... I generally try to confirm something before taking it as gospel.

But fox news is WIDELY known as being one of the most biased "news" outlets available.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by ssump29

As long as I can help keep them out the private sector then I'm good. But if they cross that line into the private sector then you will see a radical come out.

This hasn't happened yet?

[alrox]

Originally Posted by hair10

CNN more than the others (they are usually more "just the facts,ma'am" more than the others) but no, not entirely. That's why I said I'd have to do more research first... I generally try to confirm something before taking it as gospel.

But fox news is WIDELY known as being one of the most biased "news" outlets available.

CNN is a shill for the government. They are 100% government regulated propaganda under the guise of being 'fair and balanced' as opposed to the blatantly left MSNBC and blatantly right FOX.

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by hair10

But fox news is WIDELY known as being one of the most biased "news" outlets available.

Widely known? By who? CBS, NBC, and CNN. Untill Fox came along all we got was the left point of view for the most part. Now we have both.
It's the way it should be. AND, mind you, this is only when opinions are given. Not on reporting the news, they all report the news as the news. Once you start getting opinions then Fox tends to be more to the right and the others more to the left. Choose the one you like.

[vsound]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Now I want GM to succeed just as much as the next guy. In fact, I don't think their is one person in this thread who does not want that to happen but the act of a govt. taking control of a company and lending it money is a very slippery slope for anyone who believes in capitalism. The ideology is just plain wrong (unless you live in China) and frankly gives me the creeps.

Coming from someone in Ottawa, where socialized healthcare has been a way of life for some time, that reply surprises me.

However, you can argue about socialism quite a bit. For example, here in the States the same people who complain about America's healthcare becoming socialized are the same ones complaining about their social security going out the window.

Both are socialized programs, and both put capitalism in the back seat. Why trust the government with a percentage of your check every month, but not with your health care?

Why not with your private industries, such as GM, when they are on the brink of collapse?

Someone also stated something about Europeans having no choice in their lives compared to Americans. For what it is worth, I've been to Europe, and they seem to be doing just fine. Probably better than us.

[ssump29]

Originally Posted by Hylton

This hasn't happened yet?

In a sense yeah, but not near enough that they will be able to control how free business owner's conduct business.

The taxes on the other hand is a different story. lol

They still fear the small businesses in the private sector. They stay out of there way and do alot for us because we are some of their best donators. They don't want to lose the money we line their pockets with to steer clear of our businesses.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by vsound

Coming from someone in Ottawa, where socialized healthcare has been a way of life for some time, that reply surprises me.

However, you can argue about socialism quite a bit. For example, here in the States the same people who complain about America's healthcare becoming socialized are the same ones complaining about their social security going out the window.

Both are socialized programs, and both put capitalism in the back seat. Why trust the government with a percentage of your check every month, but not with your health care?
Why not with your private industries, such as GM, when they are on the brink of collapse?

Someone also stated something about Europeans having no choice in their lives compared to Americans. For what it is worth, I've been to Europe, and they seem to be doing just fine. Probably better than us.

That's the thing - the govt. couldn't organize a 2 car funeral. Private sector will always be able to do things more effectively than the govt.

[Gotadime]

Not sure if this has already been posted, but a friend of mine sent me this.

GM's Loan Payoff: Utter BS

[balthazar]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Last I checked we're in the 2nd quarter of 2010 and they were doing pretty well in Q1 2010.

And look at what was happening in the latter half of 2009. Q3 sales were generally still garbage and they just went through their bankrupcty. While Q4 showed improvement, they also payed $2.6B to the UAW as part of their healthcare restructuring plan (which goes into effect this year and will save them billions each and every year), $1.2B was payed back on their loans, and $1.6B was a "foreign currency re-measurement loss." So they had $5.4B lost in big, rare expenses and a total loss of $4.3B.

But perhaps you're right. GM is just spending money they don't have as a PR stunt.

Owned...in the FACE...