The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by coolman

pushrods are weak and inefficient. good riddance.

[Ghost of Vincent Price]

OHC is not new technology. The only real benifit is running 4 valves per cylinder. If you made a ohv motor with 4 valves and had a DOHC motor with the same flow numbers and cam specs, the OHV motor would make equal or more power. Spinning 1 gear and a 1' chain is much easier than spinning multiple feet of chain and 4 gears.

Plus its cheaper to upkeep a ohv motor and easier to build and cheaper to upgrade.

But building all the engines you have, you already know that.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Stew

What about gear ratios? Rear end ratios? tire height? etc, etc. If I am not mistaken the Mustang has advantages in basiclly all of these categories?

The base GT gets 235s, as well as 3.31s gears for the manual and 3.15s for the automatic. The base SS gets 275s, as well as 3.45s gears for the manual and 3.27s with the automatic.

However, the GT could be equipped with 3.73s and 255s. So this is going to be a hell of a drivers race IMO.

[fazm]

Originally Posted by ssump29

You keep saying the power to weight ratio but have you even calculated out how much better it is. It isn't even equal to one, acutally its less then one so no real power to weight ratio and if you need the numbers I will post it up for you. I'll post them anyway.

So the Camaro weights 3849 and the Mustang weights 3603. Ok here the next thing the Camaro has 426hp and 420tq and the Stang has 412 hp and 390tq. So by doing the math for the Camaro for every 9.035211268 pounds it puts out 1hp and for the Stang for every 8.74515631 pounds it puts out 1hp. Now we can see that the lower number is better but not much better only by .2900549576 of a lb. So that advantage of weight to power everyone likes to talk about is really void considering it isn't even a 1lb advantage hell its not even a half of pound.

So on to the next aspect of the cars. The TQ advantage goes to the camaro. For every 9.164285714 pounds that equal to 1TQ on the camaro. For the stang every 9.238461538 pounds is equal to 1TQ. Once again the low number is better and this time goes to the camaro by .074175824. So that advantage is also void since its not even close to being greater then 1. So in the end the logic thing to conclude here is that neither is faster then the other and in the end it will come down to which hooks up better and who's drag co is better.

My point is why does everyone assume that the Mustang is just going to be faster since it has the lower weight but not the same power ratings. In the end it looks like the cars are each other equals and just by looking at the hard numbers you can see there isn't any real advantage going to one car or the other. Anyone who says otherwise is just being bias because the numbers and solutions to the equations don't lie and tell a story of equal similarity.

first off .3 is pretty big in the power to weight ratio. also as weight increases, power to weight must also increase (a 2000lb car with 10/1 will be quicker than a 3000lb car with 10/1)

fyi last gen m3 (2008ish the 414hp/3726lb) had a power to weight of 9/1. just slightly better than the camaro, weighing in a little less, yet its quicker. not to mention it has under 300ft/lb of torque.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by coolman

You have many good points and if you stop being a smart ass I would love to talk to you about my reasons for saying what I said.

Complexity:

You realize what a pain in the balls it is to do a cam swap on a OHC motor with multiple cams?

Cost:

4x the cost of a "dinosaur" pushrod motor.

Weight:

OHC motors are much heavier than pushrod motors.

Performance Advantage:

Debatable. Pound for pound the 6.2 has a ton more potential than the 5.0. Take a double take and read what I typed again. An engine is nothing more than an air pump. The bigger the pump the more output period.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by fazm

first off .3 is pretty big in the power to weight ratio. also as weight increases, power to weight must also increase (a 2000lb car with 10/1 will be quicker than a 3000lb car with 10/1)

fyi last gen m3 (2008ish the 414hp/3726lb) had a power to weight of 9/1. just slightly better than the camaro, weighing in a little less, yet its quicker. not to mention it has under 300ft/lb of torque.

Can you give me an example (calculations) of a 2000lb car with a 10/1 ratio as well as a 3000lb car with a 10/1 ratio? (The reason why I ask this is, how can you come to a conclusion that with two equal results from ratio calculations, that one is faster than another?)

[bpmurr]

Man I really wanted to stay out of this one but I can't. Let us all just enjoy the fact we have THREE muscle cars to pick from right now.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by a_Username

The base GT gets 235s, as well as 3.31s gears for the manual and 3.15s for the automatic. The base SS gets 275s, as well as 3.45s gears for the manual and 3.27s with the automatic.

However, the GT could be equipped with 3.73s and 255s. So this is going to be a hell of a drivers race IMO.

Very true, I'd still give a slight advantage to a Brembo equipped GT (255 wide 3 season tires I believe) and 3.73s. This is getting good. In any case though, when the manufacturers go to war we all win

[cab2g]

Originally Posted by Stew

Very true, I'd still give a slight advantage to a Brembo equipped GT (255 wide 3 season tires I believe) and 3.73s. This is getting good. In any case though, when the manufacturers go to war we all win

absolutely true! I can't wait to see what happens over the next few years! Who knows maybe Chrysler won't go bankrupt for good in a few years and they'll even build a competitive Challenger! I wanted a 1970 Barracuda since I was about 10. So if Chrysler were to make a competitive Challenger, I'd have to consider it!

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by 81z28355

Mustang 3600lb
Camaro 3900lb

But honestly money will be the only limeting factor with these cars and the aftermarket.

off the showroom floor the Mustang with brembo brakes and 3:73 gears will out run the 2010 Camaro.

Whoever has the deepest pockets will be fastest always has been and always will be that way.

Mustang 3603 lbs (estimated)
Camaro 3849 lbs

246 lb difference. 14 hp difference. Take away 140 lbs roughly. You got a 1 tenth advantage. Then factor in the extra 30 torque the camaro has, then look at the gearing and smaller rims of the mustang...wow looks like a close race.

Then do full exhaust, cam (cams) and tune on both cars and re-run, I think I know what will happen then.

Mustang v6 highway mpg= 30 mpg

Camaro v6 highway mpg= 29mpg

1 mpg difference.

City camaro is 18 and mustang is 19. I guess if you combine both numbers that would be 2mpg difference.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Stew

Very true, I'd still give a slight advantage to a Brembo equipped GT (255 wide 3 season tires I believe) and 3.73s. This is getting good. In any case though, when the manufacturers go to war we all win

Yep. If the new GT can get the power down to the ground, it will surely outperform the 2011 SS if performance remains unchanged. The base GT is going to have a hard time controlling all torque with those 235s. If I was Ford, I would have offered the 255s as the base tire, with 275s on the upgraded package. The SS's front tire is bigger than the base GT's rear lol.

[a_Username]

It seems every Mustang enthusiast expects this to be a blowout (much like the SS has been to the current GT).

[stand-al0ne]

its only on paper as of now - lets see what happens when its actually tested.

Either way competition is a good thing ( or should be - Dodge, where you at?? - esp on your v6 challengers?? haha)

And everyone can agree US cars are stepping up their game in a big way while Japanese manufactures keep slipping (Toyota can't even get their floor mats down right - :rolf: ~ and the best car in Honda's line-up is a civic -Literally! - no more s2k's...

But to get back on topic - as far as the new v6 and v8 disgustangs are concerned - let the dust settle...

[micj82]

sorry,ninjak don't know where your geting your info but your dead wrong,ford really did all they can with this new 5.0 to get every horse out of it. its about time they came out with a non supercharged motor with some balls lol. and thank the 2010 camaro for that the little gt mustang would still have 300 hp, the new camaro is not going anywhere. i don't care if my car had 250 hp to honest, its the best looking american car on the road in the last ten years some might not think so....... they must need fuking glasses lol ok im done venting sorry.