Porsche accuses Nissan GT-R of cheating the 'Ring

[SS4EVER]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

My theory though, is that the GTR they used to set that time had a bit more power than 480hp. Which wouldn't be hard to pull off.

It's twin turbo'd. All they had to do was crank the boost.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

I understood what you were saying. You're claiming that the GTR with a pro driver would be at best able to lop 2 seconds off its' time. And the Z06 would magically knock off 5 seconds on a 3 minute lap. The cars lapping within a few seconds of eachother is pretty indicative of their performance in the hands of one driver. So given equal drivers I would still believe the GTR would beat the Z06 by a comparable time. I can't believe I'm arguing in favor of the GTR against the Z06 because it's not my type of car. But I just feel compelled to call out the inconsistency in your logic. While I understand that rear wheel drive is harder to manage, and I bet a pro driver would be able to do better. But road and track had pro drivers drive these cars around 4 different types of tracks and the GTR beat the Z06 by quite a bit. Z06 wasn't even near the top. Pro drivers on 4 tracks.

What I was getting at with my nurburgring comment was that given that you admit the Nissan is easy to drive fast.... Let's assume for a second that with comparable tires to the Dunlops the GTR comes with were used. In Vette sizes of course. And the Vette went again. The argument is that the Vette would be able to go faster because everyone complains about the stock tires of the Vette. Lets say grippier tires knock off 5 or 6 seconds off it's lap. If you consider the GTR has a bunch of electronic gadgetry and AWD grip at it's disposal, is it terribly hard to believe that it could compete?

I'm just saying that you're giving this edge to the Corvette. Clearly after all this testing the GTR is the easier car to drive fast. I dunno about 13 seconds a lap faster, but faster nonetheless.

My theory though, is that the GTR they used to set that time had a bit more power than 480hp. Which wouldn't be hard to pull off.

Well Porsche is saying (indirectly) that it would be about 12 seconds a lap slower on the ring than the Z06.

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

I understood what you were saying. You're claiming that the GTR with a pro driver would be at best able to lop 2 seconds off its' time. And the Z06 would magically knock off 5 seconds on a 3 minute lap. The cars lapping within a few seconds of eachother is pretty indicative of their performance in the hands of one driver. So given equal drivers I would still believe the GTR would beat the Z06 by a comparable time. I can't believe I'm arguing in favor of the GTR against the Z06 because it's not my type of car. But I just feel compelled to call out the inconsistency in your logic. While I understand that rear wheel drive is harder to manage, and I bet a pro driver would be able to do better. But road and track had pro drivers drive these cars around 4 different types of tracks and the GTR beat the Z06 by quite a bit. Z06 wasn't even near the top. Pro drivers on 4 tracks.
I dont think magically is the word. when reviewers took a look at the ZR-1 they were all surprised by the same thing, the car no longer "wanted to kill them". there is so many electronic nanies in the GT-R that you can get close to its full potential being a slightly above average driver. the Z06 on the other hand takes a lot of work to squeeze out that performance, especially with those tires. the GT-R may be a bit faster with a pro behind the wheel, a bit.

What I was getting at with my nurburgring comment was that given that you admit the Nissan is easy to drive fast.... Let's assume for a second that with comparable tires to the Dunlops the GTR comes with were used. In Vette sizes of course. And the Vette went again. The argument is that the Vette would be able to go faster because everyone complains about the stock tires of the Vette. Lets say grippier tires knock off 5 or 6 seconds off it's lap. If you consider the GTR has a bunch of electronic gadgetry and AWD grip at it's disposal, is it terribly hard to believe that it could compete?
I beleive yes it would have a hard time competeing with a vett with proper tires. AWD is a double edged sword. it has more power open to coming out of those corners, but it also leaches more power from the drivetrain. so while the vett has around 13% loss the GT-R is going to be closer to 20% loss. more bottom end to use, less top end. the other reason i dont think the car can compete is because it weight about 700lbs more than a z06. i truely beleive the only thing holding the Z06 back is the tires. once that is overcome all you need to have is a driver for it to hang with the GT-R.

I'm just saying that you're giving this edge to the Corvette. Clearly after all this testing the GTR is the easier car to drive fast. I dunno about 13 seconds a lap faster, but faster nonetheless.

My theory though, is that the GTR they used to set that time had a bit more power than 480hp. Which wouldn't be hard to pull off.

that all being said, the GT-R is the better car IMO because it isnt trying to kill you like our vette. now that prices are adjusted though i think its fair to compare... now that were back in the relm of "ill get the corvette and put the money i save into it and blow the GT-R away"

[DGthe3]

If we think the Z06 wants to kill you, what does the Viper ACR want to do?

[headpunter]

i think we are over analyzing it

i think the most important thing is that nissan's claims need to be taken less seriously


sorta on topic:
What are the other times nissan has been deceptive on review or test cars? some one else mentioned that earlier.

[MajorTom]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If we think the Z06 wants to kill you, what does the Viper ACR want to do?

From what I've read it's a very manageable car.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

From what I've read it's a very manageable car.

i am not sure about how hard to control, but it does not ramp up lateral g's slowly which causes you to snap your neck when you turn

[Oracle]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If we think the Z06 wants to kill you, what does the Viper ACR want to do?

kill you good and dead... what else?

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by Oracle

kill you good and dead... what else?

funny thing is that the zr1 is only a few seconds slower and has an actual comfortable interior and is comfortable to drive on the street

[Georgie]

wouldn't be suprised if nissan was skewing numbers

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by headpunter

chevrolet called the BS card a long time ago

i must have missed the article talking about how GM made a public statment calling Nissan's time bullshit, and in turn, putting their reputation on the line.

link please?

[headpunter]

it was a commment from a undisclosed employee in GM in Autoweek magazine. i dont know if i still have the issue around, i was not directly from gm.

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by headpunter

funny thing is that the zr1 is only a few seconds slower and has an actual comfortable interior and is comfortable to drive on the street

excuses you knew I was gonna say that.

[headpunter]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

excuses you knew I was gonna say that.

its ok kevin we know your mentally Challengered