Motor trend takes challenger to the track...

[MajorTom]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

you can get a rt with a stick for 28k invoice , you get cloth seats in both the base gt and rt....except the RT looks better, has IRS, and has a 6 speed tremec transmission. So yea 1k for a better stick exterior and cabin interior, oh and a better motor....yeaaaaaaa dodge definately hit it out of the park with this one. Don't hate...appreciate...

Look is one reason, the 6 speed is a good reason too. The IRS has been called comfy but not impressive. The car to me looks like a 70 in a fat suit, but looks are subjective.

Where are you getting that you'll be able to get your challengers for invoice? Is the dealer you're working with offering that? If you can claim because your dealer will supposedly give you your car for invoice, I'm sure there'll be a dealer out there who'll sell the over abundant mustang at invoice as well so there's no use claiming there's only a 1k price difference, kid.

You're talking cloth seats. And you just said you'd rip those out and personalize the car anyway. That's clearly not a motivating factor.

I've seen their interiors and they're not too fancy. And according the stripped down base model with a stick costs about 31k. That's a lot of money for a mid 13 second car that weighs 4150lbs.

To be honest, I have all the confidence in the world about the powertrain in the Camaro because I've owned a similar one. But what has me really excited about it is the chassis. I can't believe you haven't thought of something like that when it comes to deciding on your 40k purchase.

[kevin2323]

what I meant by changing the seats was putting katzkin leather on it. I chose a poor word in swap....sorry. The RT to me has superior looks imo to the gt. The performance is on par for pretty much the same price. IRS will probably get the challenger to do better head to head against the gt on the track. I know there isnt much out there for the hemis modding wise yet but that is because it is a short supply of hemi cars out there. Mustangs are everywhere, therefore mods are abundant and cheap. You know how much is cost to swap gears in the challenger....6k. That is why I opted for the stick. I am looking at it from the RT from last year. Crappy hp and tq....no stick... and crappy times mid 14s stock and 5.6-5.7 0-60. Now it is 5.1 and 13.5 stock. I guess you have to be a mopar guy to get it. We have been waiting for this for a long time.

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by MajorTom

Look is one reason, the 6 speed is a good reason too. The IRS has been called comfy but not impressive. The car to me looks like a 70 in a fat suit, but looks are subjective.

It sounds like you must have some kind of inside line because invoice and msrp are obviously not the same. The base MSRP for a stick shift equipped R/T is 32.5k. So that's the price of entry of a tremec equipped Challenger. If you're getting it for 28k that's quite a discount. You say "you can get a challenger" equipped with a stick for 28k invoice. Show me what dealer will knock 5k off MSRP for me and I won't hold price against the Challenger anymore. Or are you just saying how much cheaper you can get them to try to make your argument more convincing. You have done that before...

You're talking cloth seats. And you just said you'd rip those out and personalize the car anyway. So why pay extra for a car you're going to tear apart?

I've seen their interiors and they're not too fancy. And according the stripped down base model with a stick costs about 31k. That's a lot of money for a mid 13 second car that weighs 4150lbs.

Mid 13s is faster than most cars in its price range....so yea it isnt alot of money for the fun you have and what you get. No I can give you info on a dealer in atlants that you can order 1 for invoice which is 2-3k off msrp.

[MajorTom]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

what I meant by changing the seats was putting katzkin leather on it. I chose a poor word in swap....sorry. The RT to me has superior looks imo to the gt. The performance is on par for pretty much the same price. IRS will probably get the challenger to do better head to head against the gt on the track. I know there isnt much out there for the hemis modding wise yet but that is because it is a short supply of hemi cars out there. Mustangs are everywhere, therefore mods are abundant and cheap. You know how much is cost to swap gears in the challenger....6k. That is why I opted for the stick. I am looking at it from the RT from last year. Crappy hp and tq....no stick... and crappy times mid 14s stock and 5.6-5.7 0-60. Now it is 5.1 and 13.5 stock. I guess you have to be a mopar guy to get it. We have been waiting for this for a long time.

Guess so.

I can say this though... Told you the stick was better. And whether it was slightly faster or the same speed i still bet you it'd be more fun.

No seriously, I always thought the taller rear end gear in auto hemi cars was kinda offset by the fact that the gears in the trans are really short. And that the manual cars having 3.73s or 3.91s would be offset by them having 3.01/1 first gears and taller gears in general.

The Camaro for instance... It'll have a 4.03 first gear but a 3.27 axle ratio in the auto. Compare that to the 3.01 first gear with 3.45 axle ratio of the manual. The gearing ends up being nearly the same with perhaps the manual being slightly taller. I don't know the math, but I bet first gear in both cars would top out around the same with the edge perhaps going to the manual. Or the auto, hell I don't know.


Oh yeah... Brag all you want about the .2 second advantage of the auto and the tying of the manual time... Once we get real tests it'll just be more fun to tell you you were wrong.

The automatic Camaro shares similar gearing with the first 5 gears of the Challenger. The 6th is just an overdrive. Given the shorter final drive ratio and lighter weight you're sure to be tasting your foot soon enough.

Edit: Also, the GTO offered all leather seats and an understated but luxurious interior plus all around better performance for the same price (0-60 4.6 sec 1/4 mile 13.1 .88g lateral grip and better figure 8 times from what I remember). Plus a 6 disc changer with 12 speaker surround sound came standard.

Yet another edit: Ooh and it just came to me. For that MSRP you can get a Mustang, a 350Z which have been known to run 13.1s and stay hot on the heels of Mustangs and the Z will definitely outhandle the challenger being that it's a sports car.. Given that the Challenger starts at 31k and can get all the way up to 40k we may as well include the G37 in that category. These are just two doors. The BMW 135i can be had for around 36k. It'll out perform the Challenger though.

I'm just messing with you though. You like the Challenger so go for it.

[kevin2323]

haha yea trust me I am bragging while I can. the 135 cannot be had for 36k ....bmw just raised their prices and prices on options so ha!.......

But really to me it is 60% looks 20% performance 20% everything else