Challenger falling behind in road courses?

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

no, but it can easily mislead people.

Yes..but that being said..

Most auto R/T's are putting down about 330-332 HP to the wheels. The transmission in the R/T autos are shared with the Charger R/T's and SRT8 autos. They loose about 17% off the crank.

400 HP x's .17=68.00

400
-68= 332 RWHP.

Even if the Challenger has a hyper efficient drivetrain that looses only 13% in the automatics, its still over 380 HP.

See where I'm going?

[wbt]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

No, its not reality. Thats a magazine, and not in the real world. You're taking a magazine review as gospel, I'll find reality, like below:

This is a bone stock R/T automatic at Englishtown back in October.

R/T: 1.685
60: 1.894
330: 5.477
1/8: 8.46
MPH: 81.76
1000: 11.024
1/4: 13.169
MPH: 105.32



No, it isnt mine, thats from another forum I belong to. With about 500 miles on my bone car it ran a 13.3 at 105. I dont have the time slip, wish I did.


That compares with the L99 fast list..so...

Your point? do you still have one? I'm not saying the R/T runs with the LS3 SS..I'm saying it goes with the L99.

You are the one that chose to pursue the Internet racing game and see who could piss the farthest. If we want to go that route lets pull in the C&D test for all 3 cars.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

Thing is this, the cars were run in identical conditions with identical drivers. One off ET's here or there are just that.

Back to the original discussion.....

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by wbt

You are the one that chose to pursue the Internet racing game and see who could piss the farthest. If we want to go that route lets pull in the C&D test for all 3 cars.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

Thing is this, the cars were run in identical conditions with identical drivers. One off ET's here or there are just that.

Back to the original discussion.....

In all fairness, the C&D camparo is just one comparo. No different than just one run. The testing procedure isn't the same as a straight up drag race. Also, other tests have shown the 0-60 in the low 5's and mid 13's.

Viper admitted that the other cars are faster a few posts back.

I agree the Challenger is the least quick of the 3 cars, but he's right about real world driving because any of these cars are fast enough to put you in jail in a hurry.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by wbt

You are the one that chose to pursue the Internet racing game and see who could piss the farthest. If we want to go that route lets pull in the C&D test for all 3 cars.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

Thing is this, the cars were run in identical conditions with identical drivers. One off ET's here or there are just that.

Back to the original discussion.....

Mag times LOL, that was also a 6 speed R/T, it's pretty common knowledge the autos are quicker in the 1/4 mile. IMHO, comparing what actual owners are getting is just fine.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by wbt

Much truth in your statement. They have already begun retooling plans for several plants to make Fiat designed vehicles and engines in the US. This is total failure IMO. Last time I checked Fiat offered nothing that appeals to the American auto buyer.

Take a look: http://www.fiat.com/cgi-bin/pbrand.d...m/showroom.jsp

It is like stepping back into the '90's.....

It will fail in a large "ball of fire" way:

The only fiat they are bringing over is the 500 and that is a no brainer, ESPECIALLY the turbocharged Abarth version. They ARE goin gto be using the same basic platforms, but the actual cars (interior/exterior design, engine, transmission, suspension, etc, etc) are going to be designed here by Chrysler, Dodge, etc, etc. People, Chrysler isn't going anywhere, but it is going to be a few years before we see the fruits or the new merger. Supposedly 90% of all Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep vehicles are supposed to be madeover or refreshed by the end of this year. A few things we can look forward too is heavily revised and more class competitive Sebring and Avenger, Pentastar V6s replacing the older V6s, new 300 and Charger, they are finally getting rid of the 3.8 in the Wrangler in the next couple years and giving it a Pentastar V6. It's going to take time, Fiat seems to realize this, they also seem to realize they need to leave these brands with their own identites.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

No, its not reality. Thats a magazine, and not in the real world. You're taking a magazine review as gospel, I'll find reality, like below:

This is a bone stock R/T automatic at Englishtown back in October.

R/T: 1.685
60: 1.894
330: 5.477
1/8: 8.46
MPH: 81.76
1000: 11.024
1/4: 13.169
MPH: 105.32



No, it isnt mine, thats from another forum I belong to. With about 500 miles on my bone car it ran a 13.3 at 105. I dont have the time slip, wish I did.


That compares with the L99 fast list..so...

Your point? do you still have one? I'm not saying the R/T runs with the LS3 SS..I'm saying it goes with the L99.

No it doesn't. The L99 has actually broken 12's.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Stew

The only fiat they are bringing over is the 500 and that is a no brainer, ESPECIALLY the turbocharged Abarth version. They ARE goin gto be using the same basic platforms, but the actual cars (interior/exterior design, engine, transmission, suspension, etc, etc) are going to be designed here by Chrysler, Dodge, etc, etc. People, Chrysler isn't going anywhere, but it is going to be a few years before we see the fruits or the new merger. Supposedly 90% of all Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep vehicles are supposed to be madeover or refreshed by the end of this year. A few things we can look forward too is heavily revised and more class competitive Sebring and Avenger, Pentastar V6s replacing the older V6s, new 300 and Charger, they are finally getting rid of the 3.8 in the Wrangler in the next couple years and giving it a Pentastar V6. It's going to take time, Fiat seems to realize this, they also seem to realize they need to leave these brands with their own identites.

Any word on rather the Charger will stay a Sedan or what? I personally believe it will, considering they already have a coupe version of it lol.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Any word on rather the Charger will stay a Sedan or what? I personally believe it will, considering they already have a coupe version of it lol.

Still a sedan, supposed to have cleaned up styling, a much improved interior, and I have read, a twin turbo V6 will be replacing the 5.7 Hemi in mid range models and of course the 6.4 Hemi in the SRTs. Also a chance they will have new transmission (though I'd say that's be 2012) possible an 8 speed for the automatic. I know Daimler has been playing games trying towithhold parts so they are trying to engineer the mercedes parts out too.

[305pride]

the charger is a hit as a sedan, i think its going to stay as a sporty sedan. i dont think it has much competition left since the g8 died.

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by Stew

Still a sedan, supposed to have cleaned up styling, a much improved interior, and I have read, a twin turbo V6 will be replacing the 5.7 Hemi in mid range models and of course the 6.4 Hemi in the SRTs. Also a chance they will have new transmission (though I'd say that's be 2012) possible an 8 speed for the automatic. I know Daimler has been playing games trying towithhold parts so they are trying to engineer the mercedes parts out too.

An 8-speed? That's weird. You get that TTV6 from an article or just hearsay?

[Stew]

Originally Posted by a_Username

An 8-speed? That's weird. You get that TTV6 from an article or just hearsay?

I can't remember where I read it to be honest, I can't remember if it is one of the carmags or on allpar, or what LOL. I do know the 5 year plan had a single turbo (30ish HP) 3.0 V6 and twin turbo with around 420 HP listed. I wish they would show the darn thing and give us some info on it.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by a_Username

No it doesn't. The L99 has actually broken 12's.

Do you understand the meaning of "runs with"?

I am not saying the R/T is FASTER than the L99, what I am saying is that it runs in the same league, and by "league" I mean within 2-3 .10's of each other on average.
By saying that the R/T doesnt "run with" the L99 because a few glory pass L99's have broken into the high 12's stock is stupid considering most L99's run low-mid 13 second passes.

Most R/T's run..low-mid 13 second passes, same as the L99's..I'm not being unreasonable in this, if I was I'd be saying the R/T's run with the LS3's and outrun the L99's.

Infact..from this wonderful (no sarcasm) forums own Camaro "fast list" finds L99's:
5. 8ty8ls1 - 12.97 @ 107.61 mph, (L99, A6)
6. 1stGM - 12.98 @ 107. 34 mph, (L99, A6)

Behind that the next L99 is

13. 8secpumpgas - 13.11 @ 106.38 mph, (L99, A6)
15. acatlover13 - 13.20 @ 105.99 mph, (L99, A6)
17. Matt (tunetime) - 13.25 @ 106. 42 mph, (L99, A6)

And the highest L99 shown is

BLT4SPD - 13.58 @ 96.34 mph, (L99, A6)

What I'm saying is that for the majority the R/T's are running very very similar ET's to L99's. Low-mid 13 second runs.

Both 8secpumpgas and acatlover13 are within fractions of 1/10's away from the R/T above, with acatlover marginally slower at 13.20 and 8secpumpgas being marginally faster at 13.11 vs. 13.169 with the R/T auto stock.



I'm not saying the L99 is a crap car, far from it, its a great car and I'm not saying the R/T runs all over it. What I am saying is that they are running in the same class and incredibly similar average times.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by Stew

I can't remember where I read it to be honest, I can't remember if it is one of the carmags or on allpar, or what LOL. I do know the 5 year plan had a single turbo (30ish HP) 3.0 V6 and twin turbo with around 420 HP listed. I wish they would show the darn thing and give us some info on it.

The Pentastar v6 is supposed to get a turbo. The 5.7L is remaining in the engine lineup through 2014 according to the 5 year plan.

The 6.4L (which is 5.7L based with MDS) is replacing the 6.1 in the SRT's.

The 2010 MY is the last year for the 6.1L

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

By saying that the R/T doesnt "run with" the L99 because a few glory pass L99's have broken into the high 12's stock is stupid considering most L99's run low-mid 13 second passes.

Most R/T's run..low-mid 13 second passes, same as the L99's.

Do what???

You claim the L99's running 12s are the result of a few "glory passes", but the few guys running low 13s in an R/T Challenger are the norm?