Challenger falling behind in road courses?

[Stew]

Originally Posted by 1bad65

They actually seem content to just bleed money. Both GM and Chrysler got bailouts recently. I see GM has started to repay the Government. Has Chrysler?

Chrysler actually started the minivan craze, didn't they?

I forgot about the Minivans LOL. Whether Chrysler survives or not depends on one thing. is Fiat serious or are they just another Daimler or Cerberus......

[MrIcky]

I kind of think FIAT is serious, but I think they're serious because they want to sell FIATs in America. My optimism for Dodge sort of faded after the last auto show.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Assuming this is all true, then why didn't Chrysler make it a "high-volume" car for it to sell more? Since you believe that people would rather want a comfortable daily driver, then the Challenger should have no worry about selling in this market right? Sales sure don't reflect that.

They cant.

The Challenger shares the line with the 300 and the Charger. The Camaro has a plant all to itself.

Putting Challenger production above the Charger is stupid, because the Charger has the police contract which is a massive thing.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

They cant.

The Challenger shares the line with the 300 and the Charger. The Camaro has a plant all to itself.

Putting Challenger production above the Charger is stupid, because the Charger has the police contract which is a massive thing.

They could have spent millions to upgrade the line ... GM did it with the Equinox/Terrain

[wbt]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I kind of think FIAT is serious, but I think they're serious because they want to sell FIATs in America. My optimism for Dodge sort of faded after the last auto show.

Much truth in your statement. They have already begun retooling plans for several plants to make Fiat designed vehicles and engines in the US. This is total failure IMO. Last time I checked Fiat offered nothing that appeals to the American auto buyer.

Take a look: http://www.fiat.com/cgi-bin/pbrand.d...m/showroom.jsp

It is like stepping back into the '90's.....

It will fail in a large "ball of fire" way:

[ViperTomcat]

Ok..here is the thing about the Challenger..

I love my car..its got very good straight line performance and can handle all the twisty turny roads that my area throws at it (usually able to take turns about 25-30 miles above the recommended speed for them). Here is a picture of what my average drive is like for a good 20 miles:



Trust me..in the real world driving conditions the Challenger does everything I ask of it. I dont put a whole lot of faith in advertised times as it doesnt take into account driver variance. A driver can have a great day and the one right behind him in the rivals car could be having a really bad day, and thus, throw the times off.

I take real world performance above what I see on the internet and in print. In that world it says the Camaro and the Mustang walk away from the Challenger in turns and bad conditions. In my real world I keep up with them just fine, its the man(or woman)..not the machine all the time.

As for straight line performance? The same car, same driver, running in Texas will run better than where I am. Why? better DA.


I'm not saying the Camaro isnt a great car, so dont even start. What I'm saying is that in my real world experience doesnt reflect what the print says.

Twists or a straight run, bring them on..because my car can handle it just fine.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

They could have spent millions to upgrade the line ... GM did it with the Equinox/Terrain

GM wasnt screwed over by Daimler Benz and Cerebitch. The fact is Chrysler didnt have the money to massively upgrade Brampton.

[wbt]

Glad you like it. The Challengers are easy on the eyes but in all fairness are outperformed by the competition. I would like to see Dodge get their stuff together and get back in the "game". I don't see it happening...

I have a '67 Plymouth Valiant sitting in my garage BTW so this is not about who can piss the farthest....it is about a boat sailing in circles with no direction.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by wbt

Glad you like it. The Challengers are easy on the eyes but in all fairness are outperformed by the competition. I would like to see Dodge get their stuff together and get back in the "game". I don't see it happening...

I have a '67 Plymouth Valiant sitting in my garage BTW so this is not about who can piss the farthest....it is about a boat sailing in circles with no direction.

6.4L in the SRT8 Challenger for 2011.

If its the same 6.4L thats going in the SRT8 300C...it'll be at 500 HP.

With the R/T's running with the L99's...I'd say they're not being blown out of the water.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

6.4L in the SRT8 Challenger for 2011.

If its the same 6.4L thats going in the SRT8 300C...it'll be at 500 HP.

With the R/T's running with the L99's...I'd say they're not being blown out of the water.

SRT8 totally different price range than a SS Camaro or Mustang GT.

Like comparing a GT500 to a SS.

I would compare the SRT8 to a GT500 and the GT500 will come out on top. Z28 will fit in this compare when/if it releases.

Reference: http://www.insideline.com/dodge/chal...lenger-rt.html

5.9 60' and a 14 sec 1/4 is not a match for any SS or Mustang GT for that matter.

My CSRT would lay down the same performance as a R/T Challenger bone stock.

That is reality.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

GM wasnt screwed over by Daimler Benz and Cerebitch. The fact is Chrysler didnt have the money to massively upgrade Brampton.

True, but where there is a will there is a way. GM didn't exactly have money to just throw around after its own bankruptcy. A more likely explanation is that they will revamp the line to coincide with the upcoming model refresh, while Ingersoll will be producing its twins nearly unchanged for ~5 more years ... much easier to absorb the cost that way.

Originally Posted by wbt

SRT8 totally different price range than a SS Camaro or Mustang GT.

Like comparing a GT500 to a SS.

I would compare the SRT8 to a GT500 and the GT500 will come out on top. Z28 will fit in this compare when/if it releases.

5.9 60' and a 14 sec 1/4 is not a match for any SS or Mustang GT for that matter.

My CSRT would lay down the same performance as a R/T Challenger bone stock.

That is reality.

I think the plan is to replace the 5.7 with the 6.1 when the 6.4 comes in.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by wbt

SRT8 totally different price range than a SS Camaro or Mustang GT.

Like comparing a GT500 to a SS.

I would compare the SRT8 to a GT500 and the GT500 will come out on top. Z28 will fit in this compare when/if it releases.

Reference: http://www.insideline.com/dodge/chal...lenger-rt.html

5.9 60' and a 14 sec 1/4 is not a match for any SS or Mustang GT for that matter.

My CSRT would lay down the same performance as a R/T Challenger bone stock.

That is reality.

No, its not reality. Thats a magazine, and not in the real world. You're taking a magazine review as gospel, I'll find reality, like below:

This is a bone stock R/T automatic at Englishtown back in October.

R/T: 1.685
60: 1.894
330: 5.477
1/8: 8.46
MPH: 81.76
1000: 11.024
1/4: 13.169
MPH: 105.32



No, it isnt mine, thats from another forum I belong to. With about 500 miles on my bone car it ran a 13.3 at 105. I dont have the time slip, wish I did.


That compares with the L99 fast list..so...

Your point? do you still have one? I'm not saying the R/T runs with the LS3 SS..I'm saying it goes with the L99.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

True, but where there is a will there is a way. GM didn't exactly have money to just throw around after its own bankruptcy. A more likely explanation is that they will revamp the line to coincide with the upcoming model refresh, while Ingersoll will be producing its twins nearly unchanged for ~5 more years ... much easier to absorb the cost that way.


I think the plan is to replace the 5.7 with the 6.1 when the 6.4 comes in.

5.7 stays in the R/T as its already either at or close to 400 HP at the crank, regardless of what Dodge says, the Dyno doesnt lie.

The SRT gets the 6.4. The 6.1 is fading away.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by ViperTomcat

5.7 stays in the R/T as its already either at or close to 400 HP at the crank, regardless of what Dodge says, the Dyno doesnt lie.

The SRT gets the 6.4. The 6.1 is fading away.

no, but it can easily mislead people.