GM vice charman Lutz wants a higher gas tax

[rodimus prime]

We already pay $.18 plus any state tax. The govts $.18 a gallon for doing absolutely 0 work...so we should give them another $.25 to encourage buying smaller cars?

Good grief.

[Mr. Wyndham]

This idea would hurt...yes.

But the nation whines about using less gas...global warming, or energy independence pick your reason...higher fuel prices (but no higher than every where else in the world, btw) would discourage people from buying fuel. It would encourage them to buy smaller, efficient cars. And it would have a SUBSTANTIAL impact in the amount of fuel we, as a nation, consume yearly.

I agree with Lutz, 100% -- he's held this position for years, and was proven right when gas went up last year. People bought less fuel, and small car sales soared. Given the correct amount of time, we would adjust to the high costs -- as many developed nations already have. And he's not saying it because of the Volt, etc: He was saying it when GM was losing money due to slumping truck sales.

Would it hurt some people? Yes, unfortunately. But that's why we should do it...we've become too comfortable, and comfort breeds inaction.

Think about this...in the long run, forcing the automakers to MAKE current cars more efficient will cost far more. Car prices will jump. Exhibit A, apply the Volt's technology to every car GM makes...and watch the prices of cars increase on the order of thousands of dollars.

[C377]

just a warning about tax on gas.. Here we pay 1.38 euros per liter.

which is........7.56$ per gallon. More than half of that is taxes......

Be aware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrIcky]

It's not the price of gas that bothers me. It's the price of every product we have on our shelves (plus affordable heat) that's effected by fuel prices. You can't raise the price of a fundamental component of the economy in a vacuum.

He was proven right, it did lead to more small car purchases. However it was also one of the things that kicked off the current recession.

[Mr. Wyndham]

We would've adjusted, had the credit crisis not stopped the economy in its tracks.

I was looking forward to Ethanol-from-cellulose production becoming a reality, Hydrogen development gaining momentum, Trains put into serious use instead of Tractor Trailers (lowering the cost of shipping goods substantially)....and then gas went back down and everything stopped. :(

EDIT: the only thing I don't like about this is that it's a tax. Now, leaving politics out of this...I imagine you can guess why. But there's really no other way to artificially increase the cost of the stuff so we have an incentive to speed up innovation in this sector. If we wait for the price to go up on its own...it'll be too late.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

We would've adjusted, had the credit crisis not stopped the economy in its tracks.

I was looking forward to Ethanol-from-cellulose production becoming a reality, Hydrogen development gaining momentum, Trains put into serious use instead of Tractor Trailers (lowering the cost of shipping goods substantially)....and then gas went back down and everything stopped. :(

I'd also like to see mass transit upgraded from busses to trolleys not unlike San Francisco's great system.

[MrIcky]

Well if it's for the sake of innovation- there's no need to tax gas as gas is already a supply limited product. You can force some innovation to come earlier, but it's going to happen with or without an additional tax that car manufacturers are asking for in order to shape buying trends. Whenever I see a manufacturer ask for a behavior tax, my red flag goes WAYYYYY up.

[C377]

In 2008, the United States consumed about 137.80 billion gallons (or 3.28 billion barrels) of gasoline, about 3% less than the record high of about 142.35 billion gallons (or 3.39 billion barrels) consumed in 2007. Consumption in 1998 was about 126.52 billion gallons (or 3.01 billion barrels).

source:http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/gasoline_faqs.asp

Where will 34billion $ go with the extra .25$ tax? That is just taking away 34billions from the economy.

Is this how they plan to pay back the loans ????

I think very high of Bob Lutz, but.....Cars are not cigarettes.

[DangerZL1]

I hope this isn't perceived as political, but I believe prices on most things should be dictated by supply and demand forces. Gas is going to go up on it's own as the world economy heats up, especially in China and eventually India. Lutz is proposing a tax to reduce demand, almost like a sin tax on tobacco or alcohol. It isn't going to happen, as the article suggests. The US economy will likely slip into a recession if gas prices go back to around $4 a gallon. Our economy can not upport gas this high. A $.25 increase in premium would put it at $3.10-$3.20 in my area, not accounting for further increases in the spring when gas typically goes back up.

[floraneg]

Mr. Lutz..... No problem!!!

BUT

How's about paying me back my bailout money that I will also be taxed for FIRST!!!

A$$hole!!!!

[DGthe3]

Hey like it or not, GM needs to sell efficient cars due to the impending CAFE standards. They can only do so much with the loopholes. Fact of the mater is, highly efficient cars of the size that America demands are more expensive. But at less than $3/gal these cars make little economic sense, few are willing to pay an extra $5,000 for a car that saves them $500 a year in gas. So, the manufactures (not just GM) will need to either discount these cars, potentially taking a loss on each and every one, or pay fines. OR America could do what most other industrialized nations do and make gas more expensive. To put this into perspective, a $0.25/gal increase in your gas taxes will still be less than what we pay in Canada, and shockingly enough there are still plenty of people driving performance cars of every sort. In many parts, it could go up by a full dollar and still be less than we pay and that would still be considerably less than European prices.

[MiamiCane]

The biggest problem with this idea is that the people that are affected the most by an increase in gas prices are the poor and working class. Those people don't have the money to purchase a new, smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle, so this really won't help GM or any other car manufacturer as much as they believe. I have an idea for Mr. Lutz - How about you start pricing of the Volt around $20,000 instead of around $40,000 and maybe that will entice people to buy your products instead of increasing taxes on those of us that can't afford it.

[rodimus prime]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Hey like it or not, GM needs to sell efficient cars due to the impending CAFE standards. They can only do so much with the loopholes. Fact of the mater is, highly efficient cars of the size that America demands are more expensive. But at less than $3/gal these cars make little economic sense, few are willing to pay an extra $5,000 for a car that saves them $500 a year in gas. So, the manufactures (not just GM) will need to either discount these cars, potentially taking a loss on each and every one, or pay fines. OR America could do what most other industrialized nations do and make gas more expensive. To put this into perspective, a $0.25/gal increase in your gas taxes will still be less than what we pay in Canada, and shockingly enough there are still plenty of people driving performance cars of every sort. In many parts, it could go up by a full dollar and still be less than we pay and that would still be considerably less than European prices.

So the govt shafts the manufactures with bs cafe standards, the automotive companies cant figure out how to build products people want with the standards the govt sets (which they shouldnt be allowed to do, to an extent) and the only thing they can think of is pass the shaft to the consumer?

Heres a stupid thought, some people dont give a flying phunk about gas prices. Do they suck, yes. But some people like driving/have more money than gas prices hurt/ stop them.

A a business you cant figure you way out of a problem.....go out of business. See how the govt would like it if GM Ford and Chrysler said F'it, Im closing shop. Have fun country. Were off to china.

If I was in charge of GM I would of never taken any of the bs congress tried to thow at me...with flying on private jets ect ect. I say "hey you can either lend us the money, loosen up your policies, remove the uaw, force the uaw on the foreign car companies or Im closing up shop and going home. Either way I go home a millionair and I dont really give a shit. Its your choice.

Im sure China would love to own GM.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

So the govt shafts the manufactures with bs cafe standards, the automotive companies cant figure out how to build products people want with the standards the govt sets (which they shouldnt be allowed to do, to an extent) and the only thing they can think of is pass the shaft to the consumer?

Heres a stupid thought, some people dont give a flying phunk about gas prices. Do they suck, yes. But some people like driving/have more money than gas prices hurt/ stop them.

A a business you cant figure you way out of a problem.....go out of business. See how the govt would like it if GM Ford and Chrysler said F'it, Im closing shop. Have fun country. Were off to china.

If I was in charge of GM I would of never taken any of the bs congress tried to thow at me...with flying on private jets ect ect. I say "hey you can either lend us the money, loosen up your policies, remove the uaw, force the uaw on the foreign car companies or Im closing up shop and going home. Either way I go home a millionair and I dont really give a shit. Its your choice.

Im sure China would love to own GM.

There's so much misunderstanding about how government operates. Unfortunately, I'm more concerned with being banned for posting politics than educating the masses. And your negotiating skills with Congress could use some improvement.

Stop assuming that the government controls everything. It doesn't work that way.