Why is there no midsize diesel truck?

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

You can tow a bigger boat, the same boat plus 3 friends and all your supplies for the week, or the Tacoma and the boat.

Which is borderline irrelevant... you can tow the boat, and fit the same 5 people in the Tacoma.

Originally Posted by coolman

Well, I own a hvac business and getting into every detail about what the silverado can do more for me over a Tacoma or let's just say small trucks in general would take all day. AS for a boat, just like trucks they come in all sizes. Their's a lot of boats the Silverado could pull that a small truck couldn't. Besides people use their trucks for more than just pulling boats. At least I do. Much more.
It would be like bringing a 14" chain saw to cut 48" tree.

A boat was just a random example. The fact that you own a company that requires trucks would give you insight to their capabilities, but how relevant would that be to the average truck user?

The average truck user is not someone that pulls down trees or tows the titanic...

I think you make a good, reliable, efficient and strong mid size diesel truck and you can carve your own nitch in the market.... if they could pass the gov. standards and figure out how to keep it in the 20's

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Which is borderline irrelevant... you can tow the boat, and fit the same 5 people in the Tacoma.





A boat was just a random example. The fact that you own a company that requires trucks would give you insight to their capabilities, but how relevant would that be to the average truck user?

The average truck user is not someone that pulls down trees or tows the titanic...

I give you that much ,but like I said before their's not enough difference in price, or gas mileage to go with the small one to give up the rest. I think most people think the same and it shows in sales. I think the small trucks are for someone that hunts ,fishes , hikes, you know the outdoors type that has alittle gear to haul, maybe bring home a dead carcass or just playing in the wilderness. You know, a toy not really made for real work.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by coolman

I give you that much ,but like I said before their's not enough difference in price, or gas mileage to go with the small one to give up the rest. I think most people think the same and it shows in sales. I think the small trucks are for someone that hunts ,fishes , hikes, you know the outdoors type that has alittle gear to haul, maybe bring home a dead carcass or just playing in the wilderness. You know, a toy not really made for real work.

Just for refferance (and the reason I'm using the Tacoma is only because its the most popular mid sized truck on sale in the US.)

Tacoma starts at - $15,345

Silverado starts at - $20,850 Diesel starts at $27,465

I think that the Tacoma/any mid sized truck could offer a diesel variant for 18k-21k.... That truck would be better in nearly every aspect than the bottom of the barrel Silverado. I think that truck could do very well....

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Just for refferance (and the reason I'm using the Tacoma is only because its the most popular mid sized truck on sale in the US.)

Tacoma starts at - $15,345

Silverado starts at - $20,850 Diesel starts at $27,465

I think that the Tacoma/any mid sized truck could offer a diesel variant for 18k-21k.... That truck would be better in nearly every aspect than the bottom of the barrel Silverado. I think that truck could do very well....

I buy a lot of cars and trucks and you never see the starts with price anywhere. When you start putting options on the overseas trucks the price goes up quickly , and because they never offer the discounts the americans do to buy full size trucks they end up being close. I'm sure that this will all change someday ,but right now the full size truck is the better buy. As far as quality, I can tell you chevy trucks hold up. I have two right now with over 400,000 miles on the oem motor, tranny, and rear end.

Oh, and if the tacoma had a diesel option it would be $7,000 more too. You could bet on it.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by coolman

I buy a lot of cars and trucks and you never see the starts with price anywhere. When you start putting options on the overseas trucks the price goes up quickly , and because they never offer the discounts the americans do to buy full size trucks they end up being close. I'm sure that this will all change someday ,but right now the full size truck is the better buy. As far as quality, I can tell you chevy trucks hold up. I have two right now with over 400,000 miles on the oem motor, tranny, and rear end.

Oh, and if the tacoma had a diesel option it would be $7,000 more too. You could bet on it.

I spent the last 3 days looking at trucks prior to starting this thread (contributed to my inspiration) and found the prices to be disturbing across the board.

Say it does add 7k, you get a diesel option Tacoma/Midsize truck for low 20's, and you have yourself a winner.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I spent the last 3 days looking at trucks prior to starting this thread (contributed to my inspiration) and found the prices to be disturbing across the board.

Say it does add 7k, you get a diesel option Tacoma/Midsize truck for low 20's, and you have yourself a winner.

My buddie had one of those tacomas that the frame rusted out on. I don't know if the fixed that problem yet. I heard it migrated into the tundra also. Just be careful. Toyota isn't as good as the use to be.

How about we say, you like little trucks and I like big trucks and all is good with the world. Hope you get your diesel tacoma someday.

edit: By the way the last full size chevy 4x4 truck I bought I paid $19,500.00 for out the door.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by coolman

My buddie had one of those tacomas that the frame rusted out on. I don't know if the fixed that problem yet. I heard it migrated into the tundra also. Just be careful. Toyota isn't as good as the use to be.

How about we say, you like little trucks and I like big trucks and all is good with the world. Hope you get your diesel tacoma someday.

edit: By the way the last full size chevy 4x4 truck I bought I paid $19,500.00 for out the door.

I don't love the Tacoma or anything, its just the most popular mid sized truck on the market right now so its the example.

I always think its funny how every joe you talk to on the internet paid 30k under sticker for their ride

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I don't love the Tacoma or anything, its just the most popular mid sized truck on the market right now so its the example.

I always think its funny how every joe you talk to on the internet paid 30k under sticker for their ride

I wasn't fully honest. It was part of a fleet deal. My personal/work truck is a 2500 durmax and it was over 48 grand. I will say chevy has some really good buys on trucks right now. One of my employees claims he got 10 grand off an extended cab 4x4 ltz. That would still be over thirty I'm sure because the ltz is the top of the line.
Humm, I might have to look at what I'm paying him. LOL

[nova]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Yea I know, but pretend that I am trying to make a point and lets talk specifics.

What can you do in a Silverado that you can't do in a Tacoma. Specifically. Don't say 'haul more' because I know you can haul more, but if the Tacoma can haul the weight of a boat, then the silverado being able to haul more means jack $hit.

I can't talk Tacoma because I don't know their specs off the top of my head so I'll talk Colorado instead.

Take my travel trailer as an example. The smallest lightest one I've found, that wasn't a popup, was around 2900lbs dry weight. Towing capacity on my '06 Colorado tops out at about 4000lbs. That doesn't leave a whole lot of extra capacity for all the other stuff that goes in beyond dry weight.

On top of that, based on my prior towing experience ( I towed a load that topped out around 3800lbs once) the Colorado is inadeqate in the power and braking department (even with trailer brakes) for loads that size, even on flat terrain, and gas mileage drops to around 12 mpg..

As a comparison, I've towed north of 5000 lbs with my dads '06 Sierra and had a lot easier time of it. Additionally he tows loads like that pretty regularly and doesn't see nearly as much MPG dropoff as I did towing 3800 lbs. IIRC he said his fuel economy only drops down to about 15mpg at that load.

A diesel could probably overcome a lot of that, but to be really worthwhile I think you'd have to beef up the tranny, suspension and brakes to really get a package that would work.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by coolman

I wasn't fully honest. It was part of a fleet deal. My personal/work truck is a 2500 durmax and it was over 48 grand. I will say chevy has some really good buys on trucks right now. One of my employees claims he got 10 grand off an extended cab 4x4 ltz. That would still be over thirty I'm sure because the ltz is the top of the line.
Humm, I might have to look at what I'm paying him. LOL

I figured

The 2500HD would be my vehicle of choice out of the Chevy line, but 48k was exactly what it looked like when I went in to look at them a couple of days ago. That is ridiculous for a vehicle like a truck which I know I am going to be beating on.

[nova]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I always think its funny how every joe you talk to on the internet paid 30k under sticker for their ride

That might have been doable a few years ago with the right truck + right deal + incentives. Nothing more than a single cab truck though...

Originally Posted by Zeus

The 2500HD would be my vehicle of choice out of the Chevy line, but 48k was exactly what it looked like when I went in to look at them a couple of days ago. That is ridiculous for a vehicle like a truck which I know I am going to be beating on.

Thats just the truck to be beating on though. Never need another engine with the Duramax under the hood. :p

Hell, thats what I'm looking at for the travel trailer a couple years down the road...

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Zeus

Which is borderline irrelevant... you can tow the boat, and fit the same 5 people in the Tacoma.

Lets imagine the following scenario. You and 4 friends (I mentioned 3 but 4 works for me) are going on a one week fishing trip. You'll be staying in a cabin so you don't need to bring shelter. You do need to bring your fishing gear, boat (and trailer), clothing, food, beer, and what ever else.

The Tacoma has a max payload capacity of 1350 lbs, and this includes passengers, gear, and tongue weight from the trailer. Max tongue weight is generally listed as 350, unless you have the tow package where its 650. That leaves 200 lbs per person, including everyones stuff. Hope everyone packs light and you don't need a BBQ.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by nova

I can't talk Tacoma because I don't know their specs off the top of my head so I'll talk Colorado instead.

Take my travel trailer as an example. The smallest lightest one I've found, that wasn't a popup, was around 2900lbs dry weight. Towing capacity on my '06 Colorado tops out at about 4000lbs. That doesn't leave a whole lot of extra capacity for all the other stuff that goes in beyond dry weight.

On top of that, based on my prior towing experience ( I towed a load that topped out around 3800lbs once) the Colorado is inadeqate in the power and braking department (even with trailer brakes) for loads that size, even on flat terrain, and gas mileage drops to around 12 mpg..

As a comparison, I've towed north of 5000 lbs with my dads '06 Sierra and had a lot easier time of it. Additionally he tows loads like that pretty regularly and doesn't see nearly as much MPG dropoff as I did towing 3800 lbs. IIRC he said his fuel economy only drops down to about 15mpg at that load.

A diesel could probably overcome a lot of that, but to be really worthwhile I think you'd have to beef up the tranny, suspension and brakes to really get a package that would work.

That's a stock Tacoma pulling around a 5,000lb trailer through the dessert in 115 degree heat....


The diesel engine with all its torque would be a BIG plus on power and capability... The suspension is the strong point of the Tacoma right now, so it wouldn't need a ton of beefing.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I figured

The 2500HD would be my vehicle of choice out of the Chevy line, but 48k was exactly what it looked like when I went in to look at them a couple of days ago. That is ridiculous for a vehicle like a truck which I know I am going to be beating on.

You don't have to spend that for a diesel ,but mine is an ltz with all the goodies.
And, if you take care of it it will last a long time.

I got to go home now. I check things out a little later.