Toyota to Fix Accelerators after Largest US Recall

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by InventoryGuy

King of the Rocket Scientists speaking...........

Mats don't just sit there. The floor mats in question have two holes in the rear of them. There are 2 clips that mount to the floor of the vehicle and the clips acutally go through the floor mat and hold it in place. Now where some flawed logic goes into play is that customers are placing the all weather mats ON TOP of the existing floor mats and there is nothing to seure them because the clip can't go through both. On the all weather mats they have deep ridges to catch dirt and water and the heel of your shoe catches that and slowly pushes the mat forward until it presses the accelerator down or when the accelerator gets pressed down the end of the accelerator gets caught on the mat and can't go back to the neutral position.

Now once again, I am not sure if that is the only cause of the issues being claimed but I do KNOW that happens because I have seen it happen first hand.

Then how do you explain sudden acceleration of toyotas without the floormats in question installed?

[Chronomaro]

This doesn't explain why the brake warning light comes on when you tried to use the brake when you lost control of the accelerator. Tried shifting to neutral? I've found two folks that tried that and it wouldn't go out of gear. And turning off the engine would be stupid at those speeds since you would lose steering and braking altogether.

There were even some accounts of "lurching" when you were about to stop at a light, the car would head forward about 5 feet before stopping, leaving you in the intersection(maybe this was a separate problem). Floormats don't decide when they take hold of the gas pedal. Oh, then of course there was the description of a frightened wife who said the unintended acceleration felt more like the gas pedal was being sucked away from her foot, rather than feeling stuck.

I really don't think they will come away clean from this, even if they destroy/conceal evidence. That is a true story. Fired their own lawyer when he said they were destroying evidence relating to rollovers. I think he's actually suing them now, but can't remember that whole bit of news. Its a few months old now:
http://www.mississippiinjurylawyerbl...-with-exa.html

I really think they ought to have come clean that they don't know what it is if they really don't, instead of blaming something it isn't. Accidents and deaths aren't worth hiding for that 5 star consumer report and all those quality and sales awards.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by InventoryGuy

Really? Really?

Are you telling me that you people are letting your blind hatred for a manufacturer fog simple logic.

Do you really believe that any manufacturer can pull something off like secretly re-flashing computers without peoples knowledge or consent?

Do you really believe that the thousands upon thousands of Toyota employees will just look the other way when Toyota "makes" them do something devious at the dealerships?

Come on people. I don't know whether it was faulty design or the computer programs causing surging. But I do believe that Toyota will correct any issues that are encountered. I can say by growing up in and around that car business that Toyota is leaps and bounds above any manufacturer that I have been involved with in making things right for their customers. That is how they have earned the loyalty they have, not through clever advertising like some of you rocket scientists claim.

There is a great quote out there talking about winners and losers. It goes something like this:

"A winner acknowledges someones strong attirbutes and does their best to learn from it, a loser finds chinks in that persons armor and tries to tear them down." something along those lines.

I know this will fall on deaf ears and I will get flamed to high heaven but that is fine.

I think GM has learned a lot of lessons over the past several years, and I think they are moving back in the right direction. Everyone makes mistakes.

You need to get your head out of sand and look at the real world. Because of the fact that toyota is supposed to be the best in everything they do would give them more reason not to admit such a terrible design problem. As far a telling the techs, they wouldn't have to. They could just come out with a software update and call it what ever they wanted. The techs would just do it and nothing would be said. They have a lot riding on this. And If they are so great at service and taking care of their customers , why are they taking all these years to fix the problem. I tell you, because it wasn't a problem to them until it started getting media play.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by InventoryGuy

Really? Really?

Are you telling me that you people are letting your blind hatred for a manufacturer fog simple logic.

The same goes for bline devotion....

Do you really believe that any manufacturer can pull something off like secretly re-flashing computers without peoples knowledge or consent? Do you really believe that the thousands upon thousands of Toyota employees will just look the other way when Toyota "makes" them do something devious at the dealerships?

Who said everyone is in on the secret? Maybe a handful of upper managers in Japan issue a new version of the ECU code and fix some harmless issues and other innocuous fixes like "Improved Throttle Response" as a euphamism for stopping the throttle from going out of control. The flash is released to all the service departments and they are quietly instructed to upgrade ALL cars that come in for service to the latest version. They can even make upgrades to the latest version part of their normal service checkout procedure, so anyone that comes in for oil change or tire rotation will get the upgrade to the latest and greatest firmware.

You cannot seriously tell me that any service manager or technician will know or need to know what exactly the flash changes from one version to another.

The tech will simply flash it as part of standard procedure and not know OR care what the thing is doing. There's no reason for them to know. Only a handful of people thousands of miles across the pacific will know what the code did.

[cHaotix]

If they flash the computer, it's gonna draw attention. I know some of the employees are either pretty skeptical or know exactly what the problem is. Toyota won't get away from this unscathed.

[Mr Smith]

It was on NBC nightly news a couple of weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Zeus

Has this made the news yet? If it was GM it'd be a cover story on CNN.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by cHaotix

If they flash the computer, it's gonna draw attention. I know some of the employees are either pretty skeptical or know exactly what the problem is. Toyota won't get away from this unscathed.

Err, can't they just make it policy that any time a car is in for service they flash the computer with the latest version of the software? This way they can say they're updating the cars to ensure that timing, etc are all still working properly, thus avoiding the bullet of the lawsuit AND looking like good guys.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by Justin

Err, can't they just make it policy that any time a car is in for service they flash the computer with the latest version of the software? This way they can say they're updating the cars to ensure that timing, etc are all still working properly, thus avoiding the bullet of the lawsuit AND looking like good guys.

That's what I said above, and he completely ignored it.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by InventoryGuy

King of the Rocket Scientists speaking...........

Mats don't just sit there. The floor mats in question have two holes in the rear of them. There are 2 clips that mount to the floor of the vehicle and the clips acutally go through the floor mat and hold it in place. Now where some flawed logic goes into play is that customers are placing the all weather mats ON TOP of the existing floor mats and there is nothing to seure them because the clip can't go through both. On the all weather mats they have deep ridges to catch dirt and water and the heel of your shoe catches that and slowly pushes the mat forward until it presses the accelerator down or when the accelerator gets pressed down the end of the accelerator gets caught on the mat and can't go back to the neutral position.

Now once again, I am not sure if that is the only cause of the issues being claimed but I do KNOW that happens because I have seen it happen first hand.

You have a good point, but this issue does not explain why only Toyotas are affected. Each of them has different interiors and pedals, just like other cars. This problem is common enough to affect a wide variety of Toyotas but is uncommon enough to not find a trend in other cars, meaning that only Toyota is facing the need for recall and part replacement. If this were attributed to weather mats, then the NHTSA would be restricting all mats or requiring all manufacturers to change interior design to avert this problem. Why then is only Toyota being targeted? It is clear that this problem could not be replicated in a competing brand by simply installing floor mats, so something is wrong with the Toyota. Weather mats commonly cause problems for drivers, but pushing the brake pedal usually resolves this problem. These Toyota drivers insist that they tried to stop their cars, and Toyota all but calls them liars. I'm hoping that this outs Toyota as a reliable death trap producer. There are a lot of great imports built with good intentions, but Toyota only has money in mind, and that is exactly why they have the gargantuan recalls. If there's anything reliable about Toyota, it is the likelihood of recall.

[InventoryGuy]

I won't bothering quoting all teh littl etid bits I am going to rebute, not that forums savy.

I am no where near blind devotion to any manufacturuer. Toyota makes flaws just like anyone, but they make less on average and when they do they go out of their way to make it right. I deal with this on a daily basis. Yeah, Toyota has a huge pie on their face with this recent media coverage, no doubt about it.

I just can't believe that some of you are so dilutted to think that any manufacturer (I mean ANY) could get away with a large scale coverup like some of you are proposing. You are tlaking about them reflashing EVERY car that comes in for service, making up things like improving acceleration and what not. I mean come on people, sit back and lot at how retarded that makes you sound. If any of you who are claiming such a great conspiracy work anywhere near the car business you would know that is just not possible.

You really think that some "upper managers" coudl impliement something liek reflashing faulty computers (if that is even the cause) and it would just trickle down without any notice?

You never heard me say that the floor mats are the cause of all the issues being claimed. But I do know that the floor mats cause some of the issues being claimed from personal experience. Once again, not saying it covers everything, but it just annoys me when people claim that it just has nothing to do with the issue.

It's fine, Toyota is on top so now it is time for them to be in the spotlight and have everyone try to find fault with them. Happened when Gm was on top and it will happen to everyone who is leading on anything.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by InventoryGuy

I won't bothering quoting all teh littl etid bits I am going to rebute, not that forums savy.

I am no where near blind devotion to any manufacturuer. Toyota makes flaws just like anyone, but they make less on average and when they do they go out of their way to make it right. I deal with this on a daily basis. Yeah, Toyota has a huge pie on their face with this recent media coverage, no doubt about it.

I just can't believe that some of you are so dilutted to think that any manufacturer (I mean ANY) could get away with a large scale coverup like some of you are proposing. You are tlaking about them reflashing EVERY car that comes in for service, making up things like improving acceleration and what not. I mean come on people, sit back and lot at how retarded that makes you sound. If any of you who are claiming such a great conspiracy work anywhere near the car business you would know that is just not possible.

You really think that some "upper managers" coudl impliement something liek reflashing faulty computers (if that is even the cause) and it would just trickle down without any notice?

You never heard me say that the floor mats are the cause of all the issues being claimed. But I do know that the floor mats cause some of the issues being claimed from personal experience. Once again, not saying it covers everything, but it just annoys me when people claim that it just has nothing to do with the issue.

It's fine, Toyota is on top so now it is time for them to be in the spotlight and have everyone try to find fault with them. Happened when Gm was on top and it will happen to everyone who is leading on anything.

I'm driving a Subaru, so without arguing this GM-Toyota rivalry issue, I'll point out that Toyota has made great cars. In the performance field, they used to have the potential-potent Supra and the sporty MR2. In the safety field, Toyota used to be a leader. In the efficiency department, Toyota has always been a source of sales for the green drivers of slow cars that simply serve the function of transportation. Toyota has even come a long way in the field of trucks, an area that Toyota tried, with limited success, to invade.

All of this respect aside, Toyota has build a brand on reliability. Honda, likewise, has built a brand on resale value, but that does not mean that all of its cars sell for impressive values after years of use. Being known for past products having these qualities does not say anything about Toyota's current products. For instance, take Ferrari's history of high-end exotics. If Ferrari suddenly decided that the minivan segment is the new market for Ferrari, its reputation as a sports car manufacturer does not make its minivans sporty. It is hard to defend any recall, and most manufacturers will only eagerly involve themselves in a recall, despite what insiders and press releases say, when the potential expenses of a mandatory recall wildly exceed those of a voluntary recall.

Toyota has just gone through the largest ever US recall. Let's break that down. A company that claimed for the first time last year to be the world's largest manufacturer followed that announcement by recalling more cars than anyone else has ever recalled in the largest automotive market. This isn't just the largest recall in any country. This is a nation with oil in its blood; a nation that founded car culture; a nation where everyone of legal driving age wants, if not expects, to drive something soon. Toyota has managed, in producing all of those cars, to call them back to the dealership for repairs. This is really hard to defend as just another recall.

We know about recalls here. Even the Camaro had a battery cable issue. Every car will experience some sort of manufacture problem during the life of its production. While there is a lot of fanboyism on a site dedicated to a particular product, you have to understand that outrage and anger is an appropriate response to a historically bad thing. For people who associate themselves with a competing brand, "I told you so" is an appropriate response, and you'll see a lot of that here.

I see that you drive a Tundra. It is clear that you're going to defend Toyota just like GM enthusiasts are going to defend GM or attack GM's direct competitors. We know that in all likelihood the company's leadership are probably not responsible for this disaster and neither are you. I would suggest that the engineers who designed the products may be at fault for falling behind, but they're still legal and they're still sure to sell. No one ordered Toyota to reduce the safety standards of their cars or to build products that do not always keep up with the market, but that is what is happening. It is what it is, and it sucks. You don't have to accept it, and neither does Toyota, but eventually press like this may do what it did to GM, but I doubt the US government will back a Japanese brand like it did 2 American ones.

[cHaotix]

Originally Posted by Justin

Err, can't they just make it policy that any time a car is in for service they flash the computer with the latest version of the software? This way they can say they're updating the cars to ensure that timing, etc are all still working properly, thus avoiding the bullet of the lawsuit AND looking like good guys.

I think that's against the law. Not so much the flashing but trying to pull it off without allowing anyone to know what was really changed.

[boxmonkeyracing]

what all models are effected? 2008 FJ by any chance?

[Mr Smith]

From being a Toyota owner for the last 17 years (3 4runners, 1 tacoma, 1 T100, and 2 Tundras) I can vouch that they do indeed have a floor mat problem. Its more to do with the hooks that hold the mats pulling up out of the floor than anything else. Every one of them did that. It remains to be seen if thats actually the problem or not but I think it could be used as a valid excuse. On the other side of the coin...little else went wrong with any of these vehicles..they were all as rock solid the day I upgraded them as they were when I drove them off the lot.

I was amazed btw how well the hooks are fastened to the camaro floor...those suckers seem welded to the floor.

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You have a good point, but this issue does not explain why only Toyotas are affected. Each of them has different interiors and pedals, just like other cars. This problem is common enough to affect a wide variety of Toyotas but is uncommon enough to not find a trend in other cars, meaning that only Toyota is facing the need for recall and part replacement. If this were attributed to weather mats, then the NHTSA would be restricting all mats or requiring all manufacturers to change interior design to avert this problem. Why then is only Toyota being targeted? It is clear that this problem could not be replicated in a competing brand by simply installing floor mats, so something is wrong with the Toyota. Weather mats commonly cause problems for drivers, but pushing the brake pedal usually resolves this problem. These Toyota drivers insist that they tried to stop their cars, and Toyota all but calls them liars. I'm hoping that this outs Toyota as a reliable death trap producer. There are a lot of great imports built with good intentions, but Toyota only has money in mind, and that is exactly why they have the gargantuan recalls. If there's anything reliable about Toyota, it is the likelihood of recall.