Perceptions Die... OK Say Again Y Foreign is Better

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Let's be honest here... If Toyota still had a Supra... a SC400 or even a older MR2.. yeah.. there would be something to be excited about and I could see a reason outside of perception to buy their cars... Ask any JOE off the streets why people would buy a Toyota and i guarantee U at least 3 out 4 will say these 3 things:

1) Toyota are reliable... I've have never heard of things going bad on them.
2) Consumer Reports says they are a Recommended buy
3) Toyotas get the best Gas Mileage of all the automakers...

WE KNO the TRUTH.. most people do not.

My BOLD STATEMENT coming from my past issues with Toyota were not entirely to do with the car itself... I actually bought a Tercel in the interim while my Camry was being investigated for defect and in the shop. Upon learning that the car was DOA due to the sludge issue I then asked Toyota to fix the issue under warranty... they claimed it was my fault and told me that it was my responsibility... Lawyers got involved.. hate mounted... Judge found me in the right... Tercel DIED... and a Lumina was bought.. thus renewing my love and respect for what is... the Domestics


YUP... BUY WTF U LIKE

If the Camry is better... then buy it.. but don't buy it because "a friend of a friend of a friend of your cousin's babysitter... said she read in Consumer Reports... that it was the best." And then never give the Domestic competitor a chance... for possibly another 3-5 years.

My reasons for buy Domestics over Foreign are contradictory to that specific ideology... but my methodology and reason buying domestics stands firm on the beliefs that the Foreign makers DO NOT... and HAVE NOT 4 a long time.. made the better vehicle. And I have proof, not just my own anymore, 2 back me up...

Compare a Camry to a Malibu.. or Aura.. or a Fusion... U will see what I mean

The VOLT... Why HATE IT?

AND where PRAY TELL is all the CHEVY VOLT Hate coming from??? Jealousy.
Do I think it's looks are fundamental to the reason why it is being introduced to the market??? NO.. but it is actually pretty attractive.. truth is I like it... not love it... but I also I LIKE my Tahoe... but I LOVE The Escalade... I like my G6.. but LOOOOOOOOOOOVE my CTS-V and Z51..

That being said... the Volt certainly is a better car than all of them... for the purpose that it exists.. which is to kill the need for paying $3.80 a gallon 2-3 times a week. With the Volt... I could fill up once.. drive every day to my office for 1 month... and never have to stop at a gas station to do anything other than buy a RED BULL

What I find interesting is that for some reason people think this car should look like a CTS or XF... Bottom line... it looks better than the other cars IT SHOULD BE compared to... and even a few that it doesn't

Flag Waving for other Countries??? Didn't that Die with Benedict Arnold?

Some swear that all thing European are Superior.. I beg to differ.. no wait... I don't have to BEG... I'll just Prove him wrong:

So show me where the European makers that U love so much show truly superior engineering over the Domestics from $15K-100K.. which covers all segments the Domestics currently reside in.

I'll put a Cobalt SS up against your VW GTi in performance
I'll put a G8 up against your 550i any time
I'll put a Malibu up against your VW Passat
I'll put a CTS-V up against your M5
I'll put an STS-Platinum up against the 750i
I'll put a Corvette up against your 911
I'll put an XLR-V up against your SL63AMG
I'll put a Escalade up against your Range Rover Sport
I'll even put an Enclave up against your VW Touareg

I guarantee... We'll run with U... OR BEAT U.. in every performance test

Perceptions are perpetuated by a few to amount to NOTHING. Take the one about GM and Ford not selling cars... only Trucks and SUVs... made apparent by none other than an unnamed supporter of TTAC. Take the other one by a certain someone who loves Honda... He seems to think that because GM builds performance cars along with their Fuel Efficient ones... that equates to them not building cars that people WANT... By WANT.. he means the miniscule amount of ugle Honda Fits that went out of Honda's doors this year compared to the GIGANTIC amount of Ford Focuses, GM Deltas (Cobalt, G5, HHR, Astra), and Aveos.

OK.. one Myth DOWN

With the Impala selling right next to it and the G6 and Aura now winding sales down... plus No coupe version, the Malibu is seemingly doing very well...

This is something that the Camry, Accord, and Altima don't have to deal with. They have no cars in their stables that directly compete with them under the same roof..

Walks in the Impala/Malibu... for all intents and purposes these two cars are categorized in the same segment. While the Malibu is certainly more attractive than the Impala.. .the Impala still offers various things that U simply aren't getting in a Malibu... Like a V8.. .like the slightly extra size... like the Stealth Mode...

Looking at the sales tho paints a different picture... Many here have asserted that GM and Ford simply sells TRUCKS.. No cars.. just TRUCKS... I DON'T Beg 2 differ... I look at facts.

The new domestic sales leader FUSION, the Impala and Malibu walk into the Ring... and what aboutthe Focus and Cobalt... I mean... 37MPG in a non Hybrid car is nothing to sneeze at... Not to mention GM still has the G5 and Astra getting sales as well...

Within the next Model Year... 2010.. we see the debut of the Cruze... the Volt, the CTS-Coupe, the Regal, new Orlando, new Festiva, new Aveo, new Lacrosse, new Taurus...

But I digress. I thought the Domestics didn't sell cars...

BTW... despite the DOOM and GLOOM stories of Trucks falling off... I find it funny that the top 20 vehicles saw a surge of truck sales.. with the Legendary and ICONIC Silvy/Sierra and FSeries... at the TOP.


IN CLOSING... and its a WHOPPER from the past

U see me as a Domestic Fanatic, a "hater" of all things Foreign, but nothing could be further from the TRUTH.

The Truth of the matter is... 2 much is at stake. WE kno that Japan is putting out a bunch of mediocrity... and I'm sorry if I have to be the one 2 break it 2 U, but... they've been doing it 4 a while, just under the radar. The massive recalls on BOTH OLD and new cars are proof of this. No one is saying that the Big 3 are impervious to recalls, and quality issues. Lord knows they are not... What we are saying and I have been saying since my very first LEGENDARY thread at AWCC (Toyota and Honda Quality... As IF)... is that Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and the rest are no better, and perhaps worse than any of the Domestics. Only perceptions won't allow for reality to catch up yet.

I believe that OUR ECONOMY DEMANDS THAT AMERICANS TAKE A LOOK at ALL Manufacturers in order to make an informed decision. My belief is that if U have experienced a car in a negative light, it will and should influence your views on a particular car maker more negatively. If an AUTOMAKER is perceived to make bad products... then stay away from their products.

This is not about how bad Toyota and Honda are... but how MEDIOCRE they are. My point is: With perceptions in place it is well considered, but slowly changing, that Honda and Toyota are the Compact/Mid-size cars to have based on reliability, resale, value, and quality... altho last year and this year Toyota suffered unbelievable amounts of recalls, quality issues, and even Class-Action Suits due to cover-ups of issues that span back 10 years... a time period when this FALSE PERCEPTION was being forged about their products. Honda has also had it's share of woes and quality issues... witness the Civic, Accord, Odyssey, and RL. How about Nissan... the Altima, Qx56, Armada etc...

Media types like CONSUMER REPORTS stopped the buck at HONDA and TOYOTA, naming them as the "RECOMMENDED BUYS"... and then we found out that they used false data. Anyone notice that a certain someone doesn't REFERENCE them anymore???

My points have always been that Foreign makers are no better than the Domestics in any of the areas that a consumer normally looks at in terms of buying. Not Fuel economy, not quality, not styling, not performance, and certainly not reliability. The only area where domestics fall short is RESALE Value and that is driven by the BASIS OF THIS THREAD: PERCEPTION... and that PERCEPTION That many have about the Japanese building better cars than us has veins and arteries... and what runs thru those veins and arteries... is RACIST in essence.

As I said before, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with buying a car U want, but it shows lack of class and lack of knowledge in attempting to push those vehicles based on lies perpetuated by your own hidden agendas.

My push of the Domestics is laid out and open 4 all to see. Here are my Reason for pushing the Domestics:

1) Economically it is absolutely necessary for us to support our own industry first and above all others, for no other reason that OUR PLACE ON THE WORLD STAGE. Without the idea that America is capable of building technology that is superior to the rest of the world, we will be seen as a second tier power only holding our place in the World because of our unmatched Military and Weapons arsenal.

U enjoy your way of life because of this...

2) Because NOT ONE OF U has shown me yet what I'm missing by not having a Honda Accord, BMW 5series, Lexus LS460, Audi A8, Hyundai Sante Fe, or Nissan GT-R. The only cars that have anything that is superior to their American Counterparts are the Toyota Prius, and Honda Civic Hybrid... They have UNDENIABLE better gas mileage than the Focus, Cobalt, or Caliber... UNDENIABLE. But then I ask.. "AT WHAT COST?" Then the question becomes MOOT.

SHOW me SUPERIORITY that is undeniable and I will admit that they are better... until then... WTF are U gonna do?


3) Reliability is a MAJOR concern for me. I am Cheap... I am IMPATIENT... and I am easily frustrated by incompetence. The Domestics had a bad run in the 90's... I didn't start buying NEW CAR until the end of the 90s... and what was I greeted with when I put my faith in Toyota??? Essentially I was called a LIAR by their dealerships service dept... then called a Liar by their Customer Service... then called a LIAR by their Legal Dept... and then FINALLY, after presenting my case with oil receipts, a Bill of sale that was only several months old, and sheer perseverance... A JUDGE called me an honest man. But still I felt shafted because I had to deal with that for almost 10 years in my head... then once again VINDICATION... Toyota loses a case to almost 5 million people for my exact same problem.. in the exact same car... with the exact same engine.

And over the last 3 years... we've seen their quality actually and FINALLY being reported on in the media... rearing it's unreliable head, and I ask U WHY would I go back to them... consider them?

After all I went thru with them... with cars whose blandness in design rivals a "Plain White Sheet of pare" for excitement, whose quality is going DOWN... not Up.

So I ask... what would be the motivator behind my desire to see them continue to have prosperity in my country where my country's industry not only is building GORGEOUS cars/Trucks, but GORGEOUS cars and trucks that have been year after year improving in every quality and reliability study in the industry?

[Mr. Wyndham]

As long as you don't insinuate anything about my Cobalt...I'll agree, and let you live.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Do you have a column somewhere you can enter these messages into (albeit with better spelling...)?

This sort of stuff needs to be published more often. And I totally agree with you on the "why you buy foriegn" thoughts. I rarely hear somebody other than myself saying that...if you truly...truly, really, honestly like the foreign car better...then buy it, by all means and I can't hold it against you. But stop in your local Chevy/Ford dealer first.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Do you have a column somewhere you can enter these messages into (albeit with better spelling...)?

This sort of stuff needs to be published more often. And I totally agree with you on the "why you buy foriegn" thoughts. I rarely hear somebody other than myself saying that...if you truly...truly, really, honestly like the foreign car better...then buy it, by all means and I can't hold it against you. But stop in your local Chevy/Ford dealer first.

Hey Dragon... check the BOLDED part in your post.. LOL...

[Mr. Wyndham]

I don't know what you're talking about....

**puts spell-checker back in mod-belt**

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

As long as you don't insinuate anything about my Cobalt...I'll agree, and let you live.

LOL

[diddiyo]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Truth is.. if U own a Camry or Corolla... young or old... broke or rich... more than likely U don't really think that seeing Megan Fox bent over a Camaro is appealing.

i assume you never really had any bigger problems in life other than what car makes you look cool...

[AZCamaroFan]

I agree with most of those cars, but James Bond drove that BMW in Goldeneye. I have to put it above a honda civic.

[Partick]

Cmicasa the great huh? great what?... lol Does it make you feel better to belittle people because of what they drive? Get a life!

[Tactical Z]

Range Rover Sport would own the Escalade.

Sorry.

[67 Convertible]

It is not important to me what other people drive, men or women. Why would i care what another guy is driving? Buy whatever you like, I will not think more or less of anyone because of what you drive.

[diddiyo]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

or U even bought a Miata, dirt cheap own your own.. U should certainly have the ability to sell that mutha-effer

(starts at 5m35s)

[Sir Nuke]

Sorry you have this opinion, but it is what it is, YOUR OPINION, and you know the saying,.............everybdy has one, just like everybody has a A$$H**E. so there yas go.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by diddiyo

(starts at 5m35s)

I'm telling you right now, as much as this car gets made fun of- I completely agree with this guy. Those MX5s are entertaining as hell to drive, and you can actually flog em without going to jail.