Electric Vehicles

[docwra]

Ive just ordered an Audi SQ6 to replace my 2023 etron station wagon.

Not hugely dissimilar but another 100hp, better body control, longer range and monthly payments are ~15% less, my brother found the same when he replaced his Audi GT a couple of months ago.

Build time is the biggest difference, it was 7-8 months in 2023, they think they can get me a car in around 4 weeks now

[Realist]

Originally Posted by docwra

Ive just ordered an Audi SQ6 to replace my 2023 etron station wagon.

Not hugely dissimilar but another 100hp, better body control, longer range and monthly payments are ~15% less, my brother found the same when he replaced his Audi GT a couple of months ago.

Build time is the biggest difference, it was 7-8 months in 2023, they think they can get me a car in around 4 weeks now

I’m assuming you lease or able to writeoff vehicle use if purchasing. Seems there would be a big hit to the wallet/purse selling or trading in the etron. If you make great $’s then not so painful.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Realist

I’m assuming you lease or able to writeoff vehicle use if purchasing. Seems there would be a big hit to the wallet/purse selling or trading in the etron.

For sure, business lease is the only way for me - I could have bought the same car with zero miles for 50% of list after 18 months, its now dropped to about 30% of list after 3 years and 13K miles.

Only a madman would buy a big EV new, someone is going to get a lot of car for ~28K though

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by docwra

For sure, business lease is the only way for me - I could have bought the same car with zero miles for 50% of list after 18 months, its now dropped to about 30% of list after 3 years and 13K miles.

Only a madman would buy a big EV new, someone is going to get a lot of car for ~28K though

EXACTLY! I resemble that remark

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

EXACTLY! I resemble that remark

Saw my local Chevy dealership had (it sold fast) a used '24 Blazer AWD EV RS with 8k miles, about $25k. Quick search of Autotrader shows similar examples. I would not exclude one of those for a replacement of my wife's '12 Traverse. Lots of vehicle for that money.

[snizzle]

The early ones had a lot of problems, I believe they were mostly software and resolved now but may need to deep dive into that before you buy.

[90503]

It's a Hybrid....2026 Toyota Rav4 Woodland...Not mine but my son's. His 2014 Subaru Impreza WRX Hatchback was totaled in an accident. He shopped around and decided this is what he wanted....Good mileage, etc., He does a lot of snow skiing in Tahoe area, puts a lot of miles on his cars.

Where he lives he can't plug in, so hybrid was it. They don't make all gas Ravs for 2026. Hope it works out for him.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by 90503

It's a Hybrid....2026 Toyota Rav4 Woodland...Not mine but my son's. His 2014 Subaru Impreza WRX Hatchback was totaled in an accident. He shopped around and decided this is what he wanted....Good mileage, etc., He does a lot of snow skiing in Tahoe area, puts a lot of miles on his cars.

Where he lives he can't plug in, so hybrid was it. They don't make all gas Ravs for 2026. Hope it works out for him.

Well, if it had to be a hybrid, I'd get a Toyota.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

It's a Hybrid....2026 Toyota Rav4 Woodland...Not mine but my son's. His 2014 Subaru Impreza WRX Hatchback was totaled in an accident. He shopped around and decided this is what he wanted....Good mileage, etc., He does a lot of snow skiing in Tahoe area, puts a lot of miles on his cars.

Where he lives he can't plug in, so hybrid was it. They don't make all gas Ravs for 2026. Hope it works out for him.

Attachment 1172607

Originally Posted by Capricio

Well, if it had to be a hybrid, I'd get a Toyota.

Over the past several years Toyota has been converting their entire lineup to hybrid only. If you are buying or leasing a new Prius (of course), Camry, Crown, Sienna, Venza, Land Cruiser, Sequoia or RAV4, it will be a hybrid. For some of them you can then option up to a plug-in hybrid.

[snizzle]

Crazy how smart Toyota looks now. They were getting crushed for being "behind" in this automotive transition. Meanwhile GM has Voltec and it's collecting dust on the shelf instead.

[90503]

Forgot where I heard it, likely heard it wrong, but it was Mary Barra who made some comments recently to the effect that plug-in hybrids will likely be next to lose favor due to studies showing that owners don't plug them in as much as they should, and they are therefore carrying around a heavier battery, paying more for the car, and getting reduced fuel economy...If you can plug in, all EV is the way to go .Again, maybe all wrong, but it sort of backs up Toyota's all hybrid not so much plug in "strategy".....Just sayin....'

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by 90503

Forgot where I heard it, likely heard it wrong, but it was Mary Barra who made some comments recently to the effect that plug-in hybrids will likely be next to lose favor due to studies showing that owners don't plug them in as much as they should, and they are therefore carrying around a heavier battery, paying more for the car, and getting reduced fuel economy...If you can plug in, all EV is the way to go .Again, maybe all wrong, but it sort of backs up Toyota's all hybrid not so much plug in "strategy".....Just sayin....'

I read about this on Car and Driver a couple weeks or so back so you are not wrong. In that article it basically said the majority of plug in hybrids never get plugged in.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Devstrike

I read about this on Car and Driver a couple weeks or so back so you are not wrong. In that article it basically said the majority of plug in hybrids never get plugged in.

Yeah, Thanks. I found an article about Barra's comments on plug-in hybrids, etc.

Might be old news to you guys but as my kid went through a hybrid purchase we had this in mind at the time...

https://insideevs.com/news/784328/gm-ceo-phev-plug-in/

And this...


Automotive News's Post
Automotive News

January 23 at 2:21 PM
·
Plug-in hybrids, already only a sliver of the U.S. new-vehicle market, are set to become even more scarce after market leader Stellantis canceled its full North American lineup.
Instead, automakers are increasingly turning to traditional hybrids that don’t have a plug and extended-range electric vehicles, which also ease anxiety about needing to recharge but with less cost and complexity.
Plug-in hybrids aren’t likely to disappear entirely in the U.S., but a looser regulatory environment now makes them less necessary than when automakers were planning for emissions targets to keep getting stricter every year.
Long after General Motors introduced Americans to the segment with the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, consumers still haven’t shown much interest. Plug-in hybrids were less than 2 percent of the new-vehicle market last year, according to S&P Global Mobility registration data through November.
The segment lost share in 2025 after the federal tax credit of up to $7,500 got taken away for many plug-in hybrids even sooner than it was eliminated for full EVs.
Read more here: https://www.autonews.com/.../an-plug-in-hybrids.../
#PlugInHybrid #automotive #autoindustry #EVs

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Yeah, Thanks. I found an article about Barra's comments on plug-in hybrids, etc.

Might be old news to you guys but as my kid went through a hybrid purchase we had this in mind at the time...

https://insideevs.com/news/784328/gm-ceo-phev-plug-in/

And this...


Automotive News's Post
Automotive News

January 23 at 2:21 PM
·
Plug-in hybrids, already only a sliver of the U.S. new-vehicle market, are set to become even more scarce after market leader Stellantis canceled its full North American lineup.
Instead, automakers are increasingly turning to traditional hybrids that don’t have a plug and extended-range electric vehicles, which also ease anxiety about needing to recharge but with less cost and complexity.
Plug-in hybrids aren’t likely to disappear entirely in the U.S., but a looser regulatory environment now makes them less necessary than when automakers were planning for emissions targets to keep getting stricter every year.
Long after General Motors introduced Americans to the segment with the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, consumers still haven’t shown much interest. Plug-in hybrids were less than 2 percent of the new-vehicle market last year, according to S&P Global Mobility registration data through November.
The segment lost share in 2025 after the federal tax credit of up to $7,500 got taken away for many plug-in hybrids even sooner than it was eliminated for full EVs.
Read more here: https://www.autonews.com/.../an-plug-in-hybrids.../
#PlugInHybrid #automotive #autoindustry #EVs

The irony of the highlighted segment is that I've spent a lot of the past 10 years or so consulting on the concept of Extended Range Electric Vehicles (EREV) and the differences between EREVs and PHEVs. And my interest in EREVs started with the Chevrolet Volt. I've owned two of them (a 2012 that was replaced by a 2017). Even though most people think of the Volt as a PHEV, it's an EREV. GM just got tired of trying to explain the difference and just basically said "ok, fine it's a PHEV. Just buy the damned thing".

The issue with PHEVs is that it's easy to describe it as having the best of both worlds...the efficiency of an EV but with a safety net when your range gets low. The same can be said of an EREV, but they operate a bit differently. The concern with PHEVs is that since they are designed to operate as ICE only or as electric only and a lot of the duty cycle in-between, it has, out of necessity, two complete powertrains. That's heavy and expensive.

By contrast, the first generation of EREVs (Volt, Fisker Karma) operated on electricity all of the time. The ICE is onboard strictly as a generator and only turns on when range is very low, or if the ICE is needed to generate cabin heat. The ICE does not contribute to moving the wheels. Asterisk...Volt has an exception but it's sorta complicated so I won't go down that path.

The difference between the first generation of EREVs and the upcoming second generation of EREVs (Ram 1500 REV, Scout, Ford's upcoming Lightning replacement) is that the new generation will be engineered to maintain battery state of charge (SOC) in an optimal range. When EV batteries get low on SOC they also have reduced capability (system hp, towing / hauling capability). So by engineering the ICE generator to turn on when they approach the optimal breakpoint, the vehicle can maintain optimal towing capability and/or acceleration capability for much longer. In my personal opinion, this is a killer app for towing.

Since in either generation EREV, the engine only charges the battery, there is no need for a transmission (cost and mass savings), the exhaust system can be minimized (cost and mass savings) and emissions control can be focused on the very limited operating band of the engine. There is less after treatment hardware and valvetrain tech and calibration (less mass and cost). Some of the mass and cost savings will be offset by mass and cost of additional battery size as compared to a PHEV, but the cost of batteries is coming down, while the cost of valvetrain techs and emissions hardware continues to climb.