Electric Vehicles

[90503]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Kommiefornia should secede from America anyway. They’re pretty much their own county as it is now.

Here's the catch, though...

"Though states and municipalities are generally preempted from enacting their own limits, Congress allowed the EPA to waive the preemption rule to allow California to set certain regulations that are stricter than federal standards.

California, the most-populous U.S. state, has received more than 75 waivers since 1967, requiring increasingly better emissions performance and EV sales. The size of California's auto market in effect forces automakers to build a vehicle mix sold nationally that meets California standards."


I hope the rest of the country demands California follows the rules like everyone else. We have enough oil here than you can shake a stick at, but Newsome won't let it be touched. California could help the economy and well being of the entire country, but we need help from the new administration to end the insanity here.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by 90503

I hope the rest of the country demands California follows the rules like everyone else. We have enough oil here than you can shake a stick at, but Newsome won't let it be touched. California could help the economy and well being of the entire country, but we need help from the new administration to end the insanity here.

I think Elan is down for ending the rebates because it will hurt any BEV competition more than it will hurt Tesla, and he can still reap huge profits from selling carbon credits. We focus way too much on EPA MPG and emissions standards, but the carbon credit scheme also has to end before things can return to sanity and get the gov't mostly out of manipulation of markets, steering lowered demand for ICE through (unnecessary) increased pricing.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Here's the catch, though...

"Though states and municipalities are generally preempted from enacting their own limits, Congress allowed the EPA to waive the preemption rule to allow California to set certain regulations that are stricter than federal standards.

California, the most-populous U.S. state, has received more than 75 waivers since 1967, requiring increasingly better emissions performance and EV sales. The size of California's auto market in effect forces automakers to build a vehicle mix sold nationally that meets California standards."


I hope the rest of the country demands California follows the rules like everyone else. We have enough oil here than you can shake a stick at, but Newsome won't let it be touched. California could help the economy and well being of the entire country, but we need help from the new administration to end the insanity here.

Keep in mind that the EPA waiver has been in effect since 1967. This was done to acknowledge that California’s geography, specifically the LA basin and some pockets of terrain in the San Francisco and Sacramento areas were unique in terms of their tendency to retain pollutants and generate smog. The California Air Resources Board was given the capability to take measures to improve their air quality to offset these issues. And, for the most part it has worked. It is why for decades automakers had Federal and California emissions packages. Thing is, with the sophistication of newer emissions technologies and hardware, the cost of maintaining two separate approaches has become too costly for automakers. Most have trended towards developing one set of content, targeting the most strict (California) emissions standards. But with recent extensions of what is regulated (example - copper in brake linings) and the actual banning internal combustion engines beginning in 2035, the over-reach is understandably drawing pushback.

Originally Posted by Capricio

I think Elan is down for ending the rebates because it will hurt any BEV competition more than it will hurt Tesla, and he can still reap huge profits from selling carbon credits. We focus way too much on EPA MPG and emissions standards, but the carbon credit scheme also has to end before things can return to sanity and get the gov't mostly out of manipulation of markets, steering lowered demand for ICE through (unnecessary) increased pricing.

Definitely true. That plus the expected easing of requirements to implement autonomous driving has Tesla’s stock prices going through the roof. The low for 2024 was $138.80 per share. Today it has clipped the $460 mark. Good time to be holding TSLA. I bought mine at $31.49

[90503]

Looks like no change. Cali can set its own regulations. Oh well, maybe the new administration can offer some regulatory relief. We'll see.

From a news clip: "The Supreme Court declined Monday to take up an appeal from conservative states challenging California’s ability to establish strict vehicle emission rules that effectively set the standard for the rest of the nation.

The move, which effectively leaves in place a lower court ruling that upheld those regulations, comes days after the court agreed to hear a narrow slice of the fight: Whether fuel companies have standing to sue over the regulations.

Given California’s size, automakers have for decades hewed to that state’s tighter emissions controls, which are permitted under a waiver from the Environmental Protection Agency."

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by 90503

Given California’s size, automakers have for decades hewed to that state’s tighter emissions controls, which are permitted under a waiver from the Environmental Protection Agency."

Forcing the entire country to comply with whims of a coastal elite class that lives in a temperate climate, teleworks for a living, and can afford BEVs at any price.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Looks like no change. Cali can set its own regulations. Oh well, maybe the new administration can offer some regulatory relief. We'll see.

From a news clip: "The Supreme Court declined Monday to take up an appeal from conservative states challenging California’s ability to establish strict vehicle emission rules that effectively set the standard for the rest of the nation.

The move, which effectively leaves in place a lower court ruling that upheld those regulations, comes days after the court agreed to hear a narrow slice of the fight: Whether fuel companies have standing to sue over the regulations.

Given California’s size, automakers have for decades hewed to that state’s tighter emissions controls, which are permitted under a waiver from the Environmental Protection Agency."

In my experience it’s only been within the past 15 years or so that automakers started developing to the most stringent regulations. For decades automakers engineered 49 State Emissions and California Emissions in parallel. More recently the cost to develop both calibrations plus the workload and scarcity of qualified calibrators has moved automakers to engineer to the most stringent (always California) regulations.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by 90503

Here's the catch, though...

"Though states and municipalities are generally preempted from enacting their own limits, Congress allowed the EPA to waive the preemption rule to allow California to set certain regulations that are stricter than federal standards.

California, the most-populous U.S. state, has received more than 75 waivers since 1967, requiring increasingly better emissions performance and EV sales. The size of California's auto market in effect forces automakers to build a vehicle mix sold nationally that meets California standards."


I hope the rest of the country demands California follows the rules like everyone else. We have enough oil here than you can shake a stick at, but Newsome won't let it be touched. California could help the economy and well being of the entire country, but we need help from the new administration to end the insanity here.

Yeah back in the day it was common for cars to be advertised at one horsepower rating for 49 states and then in fine print or parenthesis you’d see the hp rating for California.

The F-bodies had completely different engine and transmission configurations for Kommiefornia. I don’t even think the 350 was available there in the Camaro Z28 between like ‘78-85 or so until the switch to fuel injection, and you could only get the 305 with an automatic.

[kevint]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In my experience it’s only been within the past 15 years or so that automakers started developing to the most stringent regulations. For decades automakers engineered 49 State Emissions and California Emissions in parallel. More recently the cost to develop both calibrations plus the workload and scarcity of qualified calibrators has moved automakers to engineer to the most stringent (always California) regulations.

It's interesting to me that you would need a waiver to implement more-strict regulations; usually it is the other way around. Anyway. "State's rights," I guess.

[Martinjlm]

This just in… CARB receives waiver to regulate GHG. Expect Trump will issue an Executive Order on January 20th to rescind the waiver, then lawyers on both sides of the issue are gonna get P-A-I-D.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/californ...-duty-vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by kevint

It's interesting to me that you would need a waiver to implement more-strict regulations; usually it is the other way around. Anyway. "State's rights," I guess.

The foundational issue is that California was regulating emissions before the federal government established emissions regulations. So when the federal government did start regulating emissions, California was granted a waiver to continue to regulate their own emissions rather than be forced to adopt federal regulations. In addition, states are allowed to choose whether they follow the federal or the California regulations. About a dozen states, roughly 40% of the vehicle volume sold in the US, attach to the CARB regulations. Several of the states that were subscribed to Advanced Clean Cars I (waiver granted to cover 2022 - 2025) have not yet subscribed to ACC II.

[kevint]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The foundational issue is that California was regulating emissions before the federal government established emissions regulations. So when the federal government did start regulating emissions, California was granted a waiver to continue to regulate their own emissions rather than be forced to adopt federal regulations. In addition, states are allowed to choose whether they follow the federal or the California regulations. About a dozen states, roughly 40% of the vehicle volume sold in the US, attach to the CARB regulations. Several of the states that were subscribed to Advanced Clean Cars I (waiver granted to cover 2022 - 2025) have not yet subscribed to ACC II.

I appreciate the historical context.

[Capricio]

This highlights a larger trend in the industry: automakers are under pressure to engineer cleaner, more efficient trucks, which has led to increasingly complex systems. Advanced transmissions with more gears, cylinder deactivation, and turbocharged engines may improve fuel economy on paper, but they also introduce more points of failure.

Nothing here we don't already know, just refreshing to start seeing it in mainstream automotive news venues.


https://www.torquenews.com/1/well-i-...iles-needs-new

[olrocker]

Buying an old car and just making it drivable for everyday driving gets more and more appealing every day. I can handle cold starting a carbureted engine in winter in exchange for for this crap.

Pushrod, carburetor, 4 speed gearbox looks better and better every day.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Buying an old car and just making it drivable for everyday driving gets more and more appealing every day. I can handle cold starting a carbureted engine in winter in exchange for for this crap.

Pushrod, carburetor, 4 speed gearbox looks better and better every day.

I came THAT close to buying a ‘69 Camaro on BaT. Somehow I managed just enough self control to not pull the trigger.

Anyway, if you think Randy Pobst or Jason Cammisa have any credibility, this video is worth the watch…

https://youtu.be/vCPlZl6xJq4?si=j79Ulqwiccqhl6Df