Electric Vehicles

[JamesMyBoy]

Having read this discussion in it's entirety, I still have one question in my mind regarding charge levels vs range.
If someone purchases an EV with a range of say, 300 miles, does that (advertised) range refer to 100 % - 0%, or 80% - 20%?
If it's the latter, how many people realize that they aren't getting what they think they are? Not to mention the effect on range that heat or cold will have on the battery?
I live in the midwest, which will go from minus twenty degrees in the winter to 100 degrees in the summer. In my mind, this would have a serious effect on what I'd be getting for my money.
I'm just curious about the potential disappointment that all those people mentioned above (oblivious about which grade gas to use) will experience when they run out of charge way before they expected to.
Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

Having read this discussion in it's entirety, I still have one question in my mind regarding charge levels vs range.
If someone purchases an EV with a range of say, 300 miles, does that (advertised) range refer to 100 % - 0%, or 80% - 20%?
If it's the latter, how many people realize that they aren't getting what they think they are? Not to mention the effect on range that heat or cold will have on the battery?
I live in the midwest, which will go from minus twenty degrees in the winter to 100 degrees in the summer. In my mind, this would have a serious effect on what I'd be getting for my money.
I'm just curious about the potential disappointment that all those people mentioned above (oblivious about which grade gas to use) will experience when they run out of charge way before they expected to.
Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.

All legit questions that no one - no matter how much “info” they can spin yards about - has real, straight, no-bs answers to.

It’s one of the great mysteries.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

Having read this discussion in it's entirety, I still have one question in my mind regarding charge levels vs range.
If someone purchases an EV with a range of say, 300 miles, does that (advertised) range refer to 100 % - 0%, or 80% - 20%?
If it's the latter, how many people realize that they aren't getting what they think they are? Not to mention the effect on range that heat or cold will have on the battery?
I live in the midwest, which will go from minus twenty degrees in the winter to 100 degrees in the summer. In my mind, this would have a serious effect on what I'd be getting for my money.
I'm just curious about the potential disappointment that all those people mentioned above (oblivious about which grade gas to use) will experience when they run out of charge way before they expected to.
Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.

To be fair on this point, MPG suffers in this scenario as well for gas vehicles. And for the aforementioned towing scenario. The difference is refueling and the infrastructure backing it.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

Having read this discussion in it's entirety, I still have one question in my mind regarding charge levels vs range.
If someone purchases an EV with a range of say, 300 miles, does that (advertised) range refer to 100 % - 0%, or 80% - 20%?
If it's the latter, how many people realize that they aren't getting what they think they are? Not to mention the effect on range that heat or cold will have on the battery?
I live in the midwest, which will go from minus twenty degrees in the winter to 100 degrees in the summer. In my mind, this would have a serious effect on what I'd be getting for my money.
I'm just curious about the potential disappointment that all those people mentioned above (oblivious about which grade gas to use) will experience when they run out of charge way before they expected to.
Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.

Any advertisement I see for EVs references the range at 100%. Before we go too far down the 80% road one thing that hasn’t been mentioned…Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries do charge to 100% all the time and prefer to be charged at 100%. Some EVs are either switching to LFP or offering in a base model trim. Think of LFP batteries as the “4-cylinder” of battery world. Lower cost, better mileage, less power delivery. NCM, NMA, and other lithium chemistries are the V8 of battery world. Higher price, better power delivery, less mileage compared to LFP.

This is not disingenuous because you CAN charge to 100% and you CAN get to the longer end of the range. It is recommended that the car not sit with 100% charge. Whenever we take a long trip in the Tesla (more than 200 miles) we charge to 100% before we start the trip.

When people buy an EV with non-LFP batteries, the education on how to charge and what to expect in range is one of the first things discussed upon delivery.

There is not much discussed about the reduced range in cold weather. Just like there is no discussion with ICE vehicles that the range is reduced in cold weather. Or very high temperature. Or at speeds over 70 mph. It is true of both ICE and EV, but it is more impactful with EVs. On my least efficient drive in the Tesla I used 52 miles of range to make a 31 mile round trip. This was driving 70 - 85 mph on one of the coldest days in February in Detroit. Of course, I started that trip with 260 miles (charged to 80%) and plugged it in when I got back home and was back to 260 miles range within about 90 minutes. So there was never a chance that I’d be stranded without charge.

You’ll only be disappointed if/when you charge up to 100% on a cold day and drive at high speeds for more than 60% of the stated range. If you do that on a frequent basis you would be best advised not to buy an EV. In any case you’ll find that you use more electricity in the winter than you do in the other three seasons.

Here’s what we spent on electricity in February (cold month) compared to what we spent on electricity in June (warm month). February is lower spend because we drove a lot less, so higher $/mile. But still better than gas.

[Martinjlm]

Since I’m going through charging stats, here’s our highest spend month. This was a month with two long trips. You can see that on one day we did charge close to 100% at a Supercharger. We could have stopped the charge at 80% but we got caught up watching Brooklyn 99 on Netflix on the car screen and let it keep charging until the end of the episode.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

Having read this discussion in it's entirety, I still have one question in my mind regarding charge levels vs range.
If someone purchases an EV with a range of say, 300 miles, does that (advertised) range refer to 100 % - 0%, or 80% - 20%?
If it's the latter, how many people realize that they aren't getting what they think they are? Not to mention the effect on range that heat or cold will have on the battery?
I live in the midwest, which will go from minus twenty degrees in the winter to 100 degrees in the summer. In my mind, this would have a serious effect on what I'd be getting for my money.
I'm just curious about the potential disappointment that all those people mentioned above (oblivious about which grade gas to use) will experience when they run out of charge way before they expected to.
Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.

You are older as am I, and will remember the days of the "EPA" mpg on the window stickers back in the 70s. It was a joke to people like made up imaginary high numbers. And up to 325mi range is 0-100 like ICE cars range display, but it's updated by the computer according to recent driving conditions.

The highway and city numbers became adjusted to being realistic nowdays. Yes if you live in an extreme climate or big hills or very high speeds or stop and go more than most they will be too high still but they are realistic averages.
EVs went through something similar in the last couple years but keep in mind there are those things that affect them as above.
Yes, when I bought my car they had just switched from 90% max charge in day to day to 80% while the lower cost Iron batteries are good to 100%. I did feel like getting the lower range cheaper car with Iron to 100% daily wasn't such a bad choice either knowing this after my purchase. They had few motors and less hp so being a person who likes acceleration I didn't totally regret the longer range and more motors vehicle.
The range or % remaining shows up on the display just like a gas gauge so there is little doubt what remains. Same as a person driving an ICE and notice it's going down faster due to conditions.
I think you already know hybrids and EVs recapture the slowdown/braking phase of driving and do far better than ICE cars in those conditions!

[Martinjlm]

During the last labor contract negotiations Ford committed to Unifor (Canada’s version of UAW) that they would keep the Oakville, Ontario plant open and planned to build 3-row EV SUVs in that plant.

They have now changed their direction for the plant and will tool it to build Ford SuperDuty pickups in that plant. This is to relieve production pressure that has the Ford Kentucky Truck Plant and the Ford Ohio Truck Plant running overtime.

Ford says that have not backed down their plan to bring the 3-row EV SUV to market, but they’ve simply delayed it. In the meantime, rather than have Oakville sit idle waiting for the 3-row EV, they’ll convert it now to SuperDuty. This means they’ll likely have to find a new home for the 3-row EV when they do eventually bring it to market. https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...roduction.html

[Capricio]

https://mobilesyrup.com/2024/07/18/f...actory-trucks/

The Globe and Mail reports that Ford lost $4.7 billion on its EV business in 2023 and is predicted to lose another $5.5 billion in 2024. After those losses, it seems like Ford is waiting until it can generate more profit before it starts pushing EVs again.

I think read somewhere else that Ford makes an average of $20k in profit on each F250. Good on them for helping to fund the EV revolution by any means necessary.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

During the last labor contract negotiations Ford committed to Unifor (Canada’s version of UAW) that they would keep the Oakville, Ontario plant open and planned to build 3-row EV SUVs in that plant.

They have now changed their direction for the plant and will tool it to build Ford SuperDuty pickups in that plant.

This is like someone scrapping plans for a farm-to-table vegan restaurant and building a Morton's Steakhouse instead

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

This is like someone scrapping plans for a farm-to-table vegan restaurant and building a Morton's Steakhouse instead

More like a Texas de Brazil, or a Fogo de Chao.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

This is like someone scrapping plans for a farm-to-table vegan restaurant and building a Morton's Steakhouse instead

Reminds me of one time my family went out to dinner and two of my cousins (sisters) came with us. One is a big time vegetarian. We went to Longhorn but she was ok so long as she got a salad.

The other is a normal.

So me being, who I am, sitting across from them, I decided I wanted ribs instead of steak.

When our dinner came I started enjoying my ribs too much, on purpose. Very slowly. The veggie gave me such an awful look. Her sister about fell over. My Dad bought me another beer.

Ya had to be there

[Gen6cyl]

That's funny, olrocker. Veganism makes less sense than ev's.

[GearheadSS]

Nobody really wants EVs here. We've sold 1 Blazer EV and have one sitting here rotting on the lot because no one wants it. We also have a Silverado EV RST that no one wants.

GM has tried forcing more allocations on us but we keep turning them down because we know that they'll just sit on the lot racking up floorplan interest. No thanks, Jeff.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by JamesMyBoy

Having read this discussion in it's entirety, I still have one question in my mind regarding charge levels vs range.
If someone purchases an EV with a range of say, 300 miles, does that (advertised) range refer to 100 % - 0%, or 80% - 20%?
If it's the latter, how many people realize that they aren't getting what they think they are? Not to mention the effect on range that heat or cold will have on the battery?
I live in the midwest, which will go from minus twenty degrees in the winter to 100 degrees in the summer. In my mind, this would have a serious effect on what I'd be getting for my money.
I'm just curious about the potential disappointment that all those people mentioned above (oblivious about which grade gas to use) will experience when they run out of charge way before they expected to.
Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.

There is a lot of confusion surrounding EV range, which is no surprise really. For example, I don't know the exact numbers, but the Tesla Model Y long range is rated at 320 miles I believe. I don't know exactly how they determine that range, but I do believe it includes a hefty mixture of city driving and or low speed driving. That's all fine, but I think potential owners also need to know that that range is cut pretty significantly if you hit the highway for a long trip and especially if you are going to be hitting speeds of 75 - 80 or more MPH. That alone typically will reduce range by at least 20% from the stated 320 miles of range. Throw some hot or cold temps on top of that and now your range is reduced to maybe 220 miles or less.

See what actual owners are saying. Most are saying real world mileage is around 200 - 250 or so depending on other factors. Could be even less than that if the weather is especially harsh or better under ideal conditions. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY..._model_y_long/

I'm not framing this as an attack on EVs. I just think EV mileage ratings should change to be more like a gas powered vehicle. I don't have the solution for that, but I just wonder if it would make more sense to have two or three ratings. Perhaps a "max" range, a "city" or "mixed" range, and then finally a "highway" range. Other factors would still lower these numbers, but at least then it would be more in line with ICE ratings, which we are all used to.

The attached image is what the EPA shows for the Model Y Long Range. Who the heck even knows that this means? Then it says "330 miles of total range", but that is missleading (not intentionally...at least I hope) for those that don't understand this, and I'm confident in saying most people would not understand this. This needs to be simpler.