Pontiac coming back?

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Published in vette-vues.com. 2023 production blew former years out of the water except for the 22 units more sold in 1979. The C8 appears to be doing more than alright.

To put context to 2023 MY production, it was an extended MY. If 2023 MY was closer to a typical MY duration, those production numbers would be more in line of the normal numbers of pre-COVID numbers.

2023 MY ran from May 2022 to September 2023. So along with them getting production back to normal during 2023 MY, it's no surprise they came close the record.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

To put context to 2023 MY production, it was an extended MY. If 2023 MY was closer to a typical MY duration, those production numbers would be more in line of the normal numbers of pre-COVID numbers.

2023 MY ran from May 2022 to September 2023. So along with them getting production back to normal during 2023 MY, it's no surprise they came close the record.

That's good context for why '23 is somewhat of an outlier. The previous C8 model years are looking pretty good too, even though times were uncertain.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

I am one to think ZR1 is going to be turbocharged.

Too many signs pointing to it.

• 1. GM own parts catalog containing parts for an "LT7". If ZR1 was LT6+electric motor, LT7 wouldn't be getting referenced so soon. The parts in the catalog mention, "turbo".
• 2. Spyshot videos don't have it sounding like an LT6. Still sounds FPC, but definitely a different tone. It's not simply an LT6 under the hood.
• 3. GM at a dealer meeting showed off a camo'd ZR1 with the teaser saying along the lines( paraphrasing) that the performance will be turbocharged or something along those lines with the turbocharged term in it

https://www.facebook.com/1351287040/...2461772041650/

I know I’m in the minority in thinking that. Even in my own company. Had that discussion today with the guy that actually does the forecast for GM vehicles. I look at it from a “what’s needed to make the ZR1 a better performer than Z06” perspective. The “problem” that Z06 has is it cannot put all its power down to the rear wheels. It’s traction limited on launch. Twin turbo would just give ZR1 more power that it can’t put down. The E-Ray, with less power than the Z06, walks it in the quarter mile. Why? Traction from the E-Motor. E-Ray already has the widebody look of the Z06. Remove the LT2 and drop in an LT6 and voila! You have a widebody Corvette that outperforms the Z06. Then add the TT to that and get a Zora.

That’s the way I’d play it if I was king for a day. But I’m not, so it probably won’t shake out that way. But if it does, I will have the biggest $#!t-e@tin’ grin on my face that you’ve ever seen.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I know I’m in the minority in thinking that. Even in my own company. Had that discussion today with the guy that actually does the forecast for GM vehicles. I look at it from a “what’s needed to make the ZR1 a better performer than Z06” perspective. The “problem” that Z06 has is it cannot put all its power down to the rear wheels. It’s traction limited on launch. Twin turbo would just give ZR1 more power that it can’t put down. The E-Ray, with less power than the Z06, walks it in the quarter mile. Why? Traction from the E-Motor. E-Ray already has the widebody look of the Z06. Remove the LT2 and drop in an LT6 and voila! You have a widebody Corvette that outperforms the Z06. Then add the TT to that and get a Zora.

That’s the way I’d play it if I was king for a day. But I’m not, so it probably won’t shake out that way. But if it does, I will have the biggest $#!t-e@tin’ grin on my face that you’ve ever seen.

No doubt what you say makes sense. But I think ZR1 will stick to its roots for now in being a pure RWD performance vehicle.

The C8 seems to be the generation being used as the Corvette team putting out what they have always to wanted to make in each Corvette variation.

Stingray- It's the mid-engine Corvette they always wanted to do available to the masses.

Z06- This is the pinnacle Z06 they have always wanted to do. From the mid-engine architecture to the engine. This is what they truly wanted to succeed the C6 Z06 and LS7.

ZR1- It's going to be the ultimate pure bred power monster put into a RWD vehicle.

I don't think they will meddle with the established variants yet. I don't think the C8 will be the "swan song" for the ICE Corvette, but it may be the last gen to be pure ICE. Who knows. The E-Ray I think is certainly there to get the fanbase used to the idea of at least a performance hybrid. But its reception has been ho hum so far. They barely built 400 E-Ray's so far and MSRP is already the market for it.

I think the biggest issue E-Ray has for it is you have the Z06 in the line up and priced so close to the E-Ray. The enthusiasts are gushing over the LT6( myself included naturally) and that is overshadowing the E-Ray. Given how "special" the Z06 is, you might as well spend the little extra to go Z06 over E-Ray.

I think Zora will get a different reception than E-Ray. In different, I mean more positive gushing over it given it will be LT7+electric motor. LT2 is viewed as "boring".

Oh and forgot another sign the ZR1 has no electrification: The ZR1 mules around the 'Ring has no markings letting first responders know it contains a HV battery pack like the E-Ray mules had.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

No doubt what you say makes sense. But I think ZR1 will stick to its roots for now in being a pure RWD performance vehicle.

The C8 seems to be the generation being used as the Corvette team putting out what they have always to wanted to make in each Corvette variation.

Stingray- It's the mid-engine Corvette they always wanted to do available to the masses.

Z06- This is the pinnacle Z06 they have always wanted to do. From the mid-engine architecture to the engine. This is what they truly wanted to succeed the C6 Z06 and LS7.

ZR1- It's going to be the ultimate pure bred power monster put into a RWD vehicle.

I don't think they will meddle with the established variants yet. I don't think the C8 will be the "swan song" for the ICE Corvette, but it may be the last gen to be pure ICE. Who knows. The E-Ray I think is certainly there to get the fanbase used to the idea of at least a performance hybrid. But its reception has been ho hum so far. They barely built 400 E-Ray's so far and MSRP is already the market for it.

I think the biggest issue E-Ray has for it is you have the Z06 in the line up and priced so close to the E-Ray. The enthusiasts are gushing over the LT6( myself included naturally) and that is overshadowing the E-Ray. Given how "special" the Z06 is, you might as well spend the little extra to go Z06 over E-Ray.

I think Zora will get a different reception than E-Ray. In different, I mean more positive gushing over it given it will be LT7+electric motor. LT2 is viewed as "boring".

Oh and forgot another sign the ZR1 has no electrification: The ZR1 mules around the 'Ring has no markings letting first responders know it contains a HV battery pack like the E-Ray mules had.

That might be the one thing that gets me off my tilt. I was not aware there was any testing on the ‘Ring already.

[genxer]

Has anyone in this threAD yet bragged about there being no need to advertise the Euro-flavored C8?

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That might be the one thing that gets me off my tilt. I was not aware there was any testing on the ‘Ring already.

They have been testing at the ‘Ring for 7-8 months now.

https://youtu.be/CaaF3YDO8io?si=fSRwhG6bqiXw94ri

Also spotted in the teaser video released yesterday.

The rocket that is on the LT6 between the effects forming what looks to be turbo’s.

[90503]

Originally Posted by rbuzz00

I found an interesting advertisement on the inside of the rear cover of my May/June issue of Car and Driver that brings up more questions than it does answers. The headline is "Make Some Noise...Pontiac Is Back".

It starts off by mentioning that it's been 15 years since Pontiac left and says "America needs us. The future needs us. So Pontiac is back."

It then goes on to say they will first come out with a hybrid system using a battery and electric motor to start a 667-hp-supercharged 372-cubic-inch V-8.

It goes on to say that Pontiac is here to offer a future filled with V-8s, great sounds, gold pinstripe, and window louvers. A V-8 and great sounds sounds great, but I'm not so sure about gold pinstripes and window louvers. Well, maybe to real Pontiac fanatics. It's hard to follow the hidden meaning of all that, but that last part seems to insinuate that something like a Trans Am may be coming.

Nowhere on the ad is there any GM emblem, or the mention of GM, and there is a weird little disclaimer at the bottom of the ad: "Do you need to be told that this advertisement is fake and not to be taken seriously? Our lawyers think you do."

So is Pontiac coming back, or is this just a fake advertisement meant to gauge the interest of GM possible bringing back the iconic Pontiac brand? Or could it be something from one of the manufacturers of clones of various Pontiac models? Like I said, it brings up more questions than it supplies answers.

Surely GM wouldn't be foolish enough to cancel the Camaro only to bring back Pontiac, which would mean that the Trans Am would eventually return.
Performance cars are losing to SUVs as far as sales go, so why would GM reinvent a performance oriented division? What about the switch to EVs? And what could Pontiac bring out that already isn't available with the Chevy brand? Like I said, lots of questions but no answers.

So what do you think? Is this ad just checking for interest in the return of Pontiac, or is it fake, or what?

Pontiac won't be coming back likely for the same reason the Cleveland Indians are now the Guardians.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

…

Pontiac won't be coming back likely for the same reason the Cleveland Indians are now the Guardians.

Totally unrelated. I mean, come on….there’s an entire city named Pontiac and that ain’t changing. It’s the county seat for the most affluent county in Michigan.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by 90503

Attachment 1152279

Pontiac won't be coming back likely for the same reason the Cleveland Indians are now the Guardians.

As a lifelong Clevelander, INDIANS fan, and with family roots deep with this ball club (my grandfather had lunch when he was about 10 years old as part of an award he won at grade school with the owner who had owned the club in their 1920 World Series championship, my great uncle sketched Bob Feller pitching in a game in 1938 at League Park and got him to sign it after the game, and I’ve been to many games at old Municipal Stadium before they moved to Jacobs (Progressive) Field), that one hurts .

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by olrocker

As a lifelong Clevelander, INDIANS fan, and with family roots deep with this ball club (my grandfather had lunch when he was about 10 years old as part of an award he won at grade school with the owner who had owned the club in their 1920 World Series championship, my great uncle sketched Bob Feller pitching in a game in 1938 at League Park and got him to sign it after the game, and I’ve been to many games at old Municipal Stadium before they moved to Jacobs (Progressive) Field), that one hurts .

Today is the 50th anniversary of 10 cent beer night!

Chicago topped us with Disco Demolition night in 1979, but that doesn't take away from the awesomeness and hilarity.

[Evergreen6]

Jeep is soldering on with the Grand Cherokee name so I think the Pontiac name would be safe to come back if GM wanted it to.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I know I’m in the minority in thinking that. Even in my own company. Had that discussion today with the guy that actually does the forecast for GM vehicles. I look at it from a “what’s needed to make the ZR1 a better performer than Z06” perspective. The “problem” that Z06 has is it cannot put all its power down to the rear wheels. It’s traction limited on launch. Twin turbo would just give ZR1 more power that it can’t put down. The E-Ray, with less power than the Z06, walks it in the quarter mile. Why? Traction from the E-Motor. E-Ray already has the widebody look of the Z06. Remove the LT2 and drop in an LT6 and voila! You have a widebody Corvette that outperforms the Z06. Then add the TT to that and get a Zora.

That’s the way I’d play it if I was king for a day. But I’m not, so it probably won’t shake out that way. But if it does, I will have the biggest $#!t-e@tin’ grin on my face that you’ve ever seen.

I think you’re looking at it too much from a hard launch/quarter mile perspective. The reason I see it being a turbo v8 only (with or without the fpc) is because the z06 gets its butt kicked by the twin turbo offerings of mclaren/ferrari/etc during in gear acceleration. As awesome as the LT6 is it just will not pull as hard as the twin turbo v8’s offered by the competition when racing around a road course. Adding turbos to the LT6 would even the playing field. The electric motor would not help with in gear acceleration at higher speeds the way the turbos will.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I think you’re looking at it too much from a hard launch/quarter mile perspective. The reason I see it being a turbo v8 only (with or without the fpc) is because the z06 gets its butt kicked by the twin turbo offerings of mclaren/ferrari/etc during in gear acceleration. As awesome as the LT6 is it just will not pull as hard as the twin turbo v8’s offered by the competition when racing around a road course. Adding turbos to the LT6 would even the playing field. The electric motor would not help with in gear acceleration at higher speeds the way the turbos will.

Very good points.