Pontiac coming back?

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Yet here I am. Also an enthusiast. I will absolutely knock something that deserves to be knocked. But you also need to learn to read and comprehend what I say. Not just what you want to hear. Or what you think I’m saying.

Never once did I question the performance of the C8.

Uh oh...we've got a tough guy on the internet. You sure are defensive of your mom's Corvette.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Yet here I am. Also an enthusiast. I will absolutely knock something that deserves to be knocked. But you also need to learn to read and comprehend what I say. Not just what you want to hear. Or what you think I’m saying.

Never once did I question the performance of the C8.

How does it deserve to be knocked? Here we are five model years into the run and supply is just now starting to catch up with demand.

Would a redesigned front engine car have sold as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have performed as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have brought in a whole new buyer demographic critical to keeping the brand alive? Flat out no.

So where's the fail?

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How does it deserve to be knocked? Here we are five model years into the run and supply is just now starting to catch up with demand.

Would a redesigned front engine car have sold as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have performed as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have brought in a whole new buyer demographic critical to keeping the brand alive? Flat out no.

So where's the fail?

The Corvette died in 2005 and 2014 as well.

Real Corvette's have flip up headlights.

Real Corvette's have round taillights.

The 'Vette has "died" for the past 3 generations due to some fans absolutely rigid definition of what makes a 'Vette.

Under the same token, was the 5th and 6th gen Camaro, really a Camaro? It could go around corners and bucked its muscle car heritage.

It's fine if you don't like the C8, but it "dying" due to some absolute hard rigid definition is going to doom a nameplate. If Porsche had to keep the 911 air cooled, where do you think the 911 would be right now?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Isn't that what corvette had already been doing? Isn't the engine in the C7 already behind the front axle with a rear mounted gearbox?

Yes

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

I agree hp has reached a point in factory offerings that streets, traffic, and tires can't keep up with. When I read of folks wanting to be cars and coffee hero's with their dyno numbers and the $$$ that cost and inability to really use it on the streets I shake my head.
They did a fantastic job making it look and perform as it does. I love that paint color I prefer it's looks to the other far more expensive brands.

The first time I saw red mist in videos and pictures in the sun is when I knew that was my color for the 'Vette.

But guess I am somewhat in that camp as the Z will be 100% street driven. Though not interested in cars and coffees or any car meets/shows. Don't feel the need to brag. Just out to enjoy the car as much as I can.

I know I got the wrong car for it, but frankly I don't like the attention.

I wanted to get one but 3 things stopped me
price wasn't at all what they advertised it to be
reliability plays a huge factor in my decision and major trans and engine failures reported by some made it a no for me
I have aged out of sports cars, I don't need to explain what that is

When you say price, you mean the initially teased words by Tadge that the C8Z should start close to the C7Z with ~$85K being the speculated price, but then really starting at $106K? Or the mark ups dealers and flippers were asking?

DCT failure rate is probably higher than GM/Tremec would like it. Obviously don't know the actual failure rate. Posting seems to be similar level as the A8 shudder problem.

Haven't heard of an LT6 failure since the early ones. I am sure they are still happening, but forums and facebook groups have been relatively quiet on the LT6 failures. The tick is the common thing people are concerned about. GM claims the tick isn't a reliability concern, but going to be awhile before that is proven true or false as a lot are maybe driven 3-5K miles a year. Mine being included in that mileage range as the Z is my toy car and my Model 3 is still my daily.

I am hoping my car holds up. I plan to get the GMPP as the bumper-bumper approaches expiration to maximize coverage, but I want to keep this car forever as long as it doesn't become a nightmare to maintain.

Well we are all going to get to the aging out of sports car age eventually. Time wins that battle every time.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

The first time I saw red mist in videos and pictures in the sun is when I knew that was my color for the 'Vette.
But guess I am somewhat in that camp as the Z will be 100% street driven. Though not interested in cars and coffees or any car meets/shows. Don't feel the need to brag. Just out to enjoy the car as much as I can.
I know I got the wrong car for it, but frankly I don't like the attention.
When you say price, you mean the initially teased words by Tadge that the C8Z should start close to the C7Z with ~$85K being the speculated price, but then really starting at $106K? Or the mark ups dealers and flippers were asking?
DCT failure rate is probably higher than GM/Tremec would like it. Obviously don't know the actual failure rate. Posting seems to be similar level as the A8 shudder problem.
Haven't heard of an LT6 failure since the early ones. I am sure they are still happening, but forums and facebook groups have been relatively quiet on the LT6 failures. The tick is the common thing people are concerned about. GM claims the tick isn't a reliability concern, but going to be awhile before that is proven true or false as a lot are maybe driven 3-5K miles a year. Mine being included in that mileage range as the Z is my toy car and my Model 3 is still my daily.
I am hoping my car holds up. I plan to get the GMPP as the bumper-bumper approaches expiration to maximize coverage, but I want to keep this car forever as long as it doesn't become a nightmare to maintain.
Well we are all going to get to the aging out of sports car age eventually. Time wins that battle every time.

The cars n coffee was towards the statement of Hellcats and Demons and Highly mod Mustangs and Camaro's. I had more the Demon 170s and a recent members dyno results in mind on that comment. Cool numbers but more like compensating for something.
Your car looks good in other colors too but looks striking in that color I'd call it even compelling like when you see it at the dealer and you are compelled to buy it.
I was referring to the pre-release promises the base model would come in at around $60k. I was considering a silver color purchase if it materialized. It didn't. And add to it the dealers gouging on a popular model.

IDK what failure rates are but near zero is my tolerance for breakdowns risk. I would keep it past warranty and taking the engine and trans out looks like quite the project. Not something I'd like to attempt.

[102SS]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How does it deserve to be knocked? Here we are five model years into the run and supply is just now starting to catch up with demand.

Would a redesigned front engine car have sold as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have performed as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have brought in a whole new buyer demographic critical to keeping the brand alive? Flat out no.

So where's the fail?

Hey we found something we agree on

[102SS]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

The Corvette died in 2005 and 2014 as well.

Real Corvette's have flip up headlights.

Real Corvette's have round taillights.

The 'Vette has "died" for the past 3 generations due to some fans absolutely rigid definition of what makes a 'Vette.

Under the same token, was the 5th and 6th gen Camaro, really a Camaro? It could go around corners and bucked its muscle car heritage.

It's fine if you don't like the C8, but it "dying" due to some absolute hard rigid definition is going to doom a nameplate. If Porsche had to keep the 911 air cooled, where do you think the 911 would be right now?

I really loved the C7 Vettes taillights.

They looked like jewlery

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by 102SS

Hey we found something we agree on

And at some point this season you will also come to agree with me on the 7>17 debate.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by BluePhoenix

Why does everyone harken to the 77 Trans Am "Bandit" car? Iconic yes, but no one uses the great looks of the 98 to 02 Trans Am WS6 with the aggressive Ram Air hood.

I've owned both and the 77-78 is still, imo, the best looking Firebird/TA ever.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

How does it deserve to be knocked? Here we are five model years into the run and supply is just now starting to catch up with demand.

Would a redesigned front engine car have sold as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have performed as well? Almost certainly not.

Would a redesigned front engine car have brought in a whole new buyer demographic critical to keeping the brand alive? Flat out no.

So where's the fail?

While I tend to say NO to those questions, the truth is that we will never know. I too am a long time Corvette enthusiast and I absolutely love the C8. It is by far the best Corvette ever built, period. There is no debate in that statement. Now, there are generations that I personally prefer over the C8(for various reasons) but the C8 is hands down the best overall.

There were A LOT more factors involved in the C8 supply and demand over the last 5 years other than it being a new mid-engine platform. I think had the automotive industry and the world kept kicking along like pre-covid then the C8 demand would not have remained high for almost 5 years.

Anyone that says that the Corvette died in 2019 and doesn't consider the C8 a Corvette is just the typical "get off my lawn!" old man mentally. It's just an asinine statement.

IMO, the day that the Corvette dies is when it goes all electric.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

Anyone that says that the Corvette died in 2019 and doesn't consider the C8 a Corvette is just the typical "get off my lawn!" old man mentally. It's just an asinine statement.

IMO, the day that the Corvette dies is when it goes all electric.

There are people, some of whom are on this forum, who would tell you the mentality of the Corvette dying when it goes all electric is the same “get off my lawn” mentality I’m accused of.

The flip-up or fixed headlight debate is not what this is about. They were fixed from 1953-62. Round or square tail lights? No, the square tail lights first appeared on the ‘91 ZL1.

It’s about the look of the Corvette that was always purely American and not trying to imitate Ferrari. Or anyone else. The long nose/short deck, when you look out over the cowl and see the hood a mile in front of you. It always looked “right”.

THAT has always been a Corvette.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by olrocker

There are people, some of whom are on this forum, who would tell you the mentality of the Corvette dying when it goes all electric is the same “get off my lawn” mentality I’m accused of.

The flip-up or fixed headlight debate is not what this is about. They were fixed from 1953-62. Round or square tail lights? No, the square tail lights first appeared on the ‘91 ZL1.

It’s about the look of the Corvette that was always purely American and not trying to imitate Ferrari. Or anyone else. The long nose/short deck, when you look out over the cowl and see the hood a mile in front of you. It always looked “right”.

THAT has always been a Corvette.

More totally subjective assessments.

And I think you mean the 1990 ZR-1.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by olrocker

There are people, some of whom are on this forum, who would tell you the mentality of the Corvette dying when it goes all electric is the same “get off my lawn” mentality I’m accused of.

The flip-up or fixed headlight debate is not what this is about. They were fixed from 1953-62. Round or square tail lights? No, the square tail lights first appeared on the ‘91 ZL1.

It’s about the look of the Corvette that was always purely American and not trying to imitate Ferrari. Or anyone else. The long nose/short deck, when you look out over the cowl and see the hood a mile in front of you. It always looked “right”.

THAT has always been a Corvette.

But you don't consider the Corvette team always wanted to do mid-engine as a forewarning of what was to come if they ever could get it approved?

If it wasn't for GM's bankruptcy, the C7 would have been the mid-engine 'Vette. The C7 was a stopgap generation.