Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

[/B]

Thanks for the responses, but just one more clarification about the things in bold...

110 v charging (Level 1) I seem to recall as having been described as pretty much inadequate for overnight....The 220 outlet usage is still "Level 1" ?...I guess I don't grasp what a home charger (Level 2 ?) advantage is over a 220 outlet if that will full charge over night at home.

My installed Tesla Wall Charger is 11.5 kW at 220v. My mobile connector is 8 kW at 220v. So the wall charger is faster. But does that really matter overnight? My car starts charging at 11:00 every night to take advantage of the off-peak rates. According to the app tonight it will finish charging at 12:33. If I had used my mobile connector instead maybe it takes until 1:00?? I don’t know. I do know I would be asleep so it wouldn’t matter.

One other thought… The wall connector is WiFi connected so I can communicate with it through the app. I can precondition the car from the grid (heat it up in winter / cool it down in summer). I don’t know if I can do that with the mobile connector. Actually, I’m pretty sure I can’t. It’s either plugged in or it’s not. With the wall connector I can tell it when to charge, when I plan on leaving so it can manage the climate, etc.

Originally Posted by 90503

The non-home, non-charger installations you mentioned, at a hotel, for instance, are free?

At most hotels yes, assuming you have a cord that reaches. These days though it’s fairly easy to find a hotel that has Level 2 chargers so you wouldn’t even need the mobile connector. But if all the Level 2 are taken AND there’s a 220v plug in the vicinity, go for it.

Originally Posted by 90503

Does anyone really use 110 level 1 charging as an adequate way to charge? (Seems like a stretch), just sayin'.

Nobody I know.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Capricio

What AWG size is the typical Level3 charging cable? I assume it must be pretty beefy if it is feeding "low" voltage DC power. How much can an entrepreneurial recycling enthusiast experiencing homelessness hope to haul off from a single node?

This company has a few different cables: https://www.omgevcable.com/ev-charging-cables/
Standards for codes and safety are out there, what I searched was copyrighted:
https://share.ansi.org/evsp/ANSI_EVS..._June_2023.pdf https://img.antpedia.com/standard/fi...2022.12.15.pdf
It may already be past the hundredth monkey thieves knowing what they need to protect from even a live circuit.

One of the charge companies is floating the idea of limiting dc fast charges to stop at 85% charge. To keep charger turnover going, top-off is too slow.

It would be a bit ironic if top-off people had to move to a side park/charge spot and have to use their own cord built with anti-recycling deterrents. It's really not to late for the EV masterminds to change tack and plan for battery swap stations, for the wealthier half of EV'ers.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

At most hotels yes, assuming you have a cord that reaches. These days though it’s fairly easy to find a hotel that has Level 2 chargers so you wouldn’t even need the mobile connector. But if all the Level 2 are taken AND there’s a 220v plug in the vicinity, go for it.

Do you think this will continue though as EV volume increases? "Free" charging at any location? This will be another current advantage for early adopters that will evaporate IMO.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

This company has a few different cables: https://www.omgevcable.com/ev-charging-cables/
Standards for codes and safety are out there, what I searched was copyrighted:
https://share.ansi.org/evsp/ANSI_EVS..._June_2023.pdf https://img.antpedia.com/standard/fi...2022.12.15.pdf
It may already be past the hundredth monkey thieves knowing what they need to protect from even a live circuit.

One of the charge companies is floating the idea of limiting dc fast charges to stop at 85% charge. To keep charger turnover going, top-off is too slow.

It would be a bit ironic if top-off people had to move to a side park/charge spot and have to use their own cord built with anti-recycling deterrents. It's really not to late for the EV masterminds to change tack and plan for battery swap stations, for the wealthier half of EV'ers.

Whether or not it is too late depends on the vehicle manufacturer and their manufacturing strategies. For most of the manufacturers that I am aware of it is too late. Most EV manufacturers, both start-up and legacy OEMs, integrate the battery box as part of the platform structure. Some even use the battery box cover as the floor of the vehicle in order to reduce mass and add to structural rigidity. The picture below shows the difference in body structure when designing to use the battery box structure as the floor of the vehicle. The figure on the right is the direction that the industry is heading.

“Swapping” the battery then becomes the equivalent of a frame adjustment. Not something I’d want to do every week or two. The one glaring exception is Nio. But they designed the car AND the battery swap process together. Nobody else is doing that.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Do you think this will continue though as EV volume increases? "Free" charging at any location? This will be another current advantage for early adopters that will evaporate IMO.

I expect that it will continue. From the hotel’s perspective it’s probably a better play than offering free warm chocolate chip cookies. Costs probably $5 or less per vehicle per day, especially at off-peak, and could represent the difference between a traveler selecting Hotel A which offers Level 2 charging and Hotel B that doesn’t.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by genxer

It may already be past the hundredth monkey thieves knowing what they need to protect from even a live circuit.

It would be a bit ironic if top-off people had to move to a side park/charge spot and have to use their own cord built with anti-recycling deterrents.

Also ironic that meth/crackheads drive demand for copper up, through recycling programs, by forcing every EV owner to carry their own cord.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Do you think this will continue though as EV volume increases? "Free" charging at any location? This will be another current advantage for early adopters that will evaporate IMO.

Tracking your mileage/movements is coming when/if fuel tax revenues decline. Also electrical rates will necessarily increase by a lot if we are forced to transition to expensive green sources of energy and the grid has to increase capacity to achieve EV utopia. Nothing that hasn't been said before here, but "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Tracking your mileage/movements is coming when/if fuel tax revenues decline. Also electrical rates will necessarily increase by a lot if we are forced to transition to expensive green sources of energy and the grid has to increase capacity to achieve EV utopia. Nothing that hasn't been said before here, but "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."

Electric utilities are making a strong move to renewable energy sources with or without EVs. There are more states focused on eliminating coal as an energy source than there are states focused on eliminating ICE as an emissions source. This has been underway for years.

As far as tracking your movements? Why rely on the car (EV or ICE) when the phone in your pocket does that just fine? And has been doing it for a decade and a half.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Electric utilities are making a strong move to renewable energy sources with or without EVs. There are more states focused on eliminating coal as an energy source than there are states focused on eliminating ICE as an emissions source. This has been underway for years.

Can we expect rates to get cheaper, then?

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

As far as tracking your movements? Why rely on the car (EV or ICE) when the phone in your pocket does that just fine? And has been doing it for a decade and a half.

The means is unimportant, the point is the "free ride", lack of a consumption tax to maintain roads, will end for EVs at some point, if they ever take over. Remorse usually comes after the "switch" part of a "bait and switch" action. For now, enjoy the free ride.

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Tracking your mileage/movements is coming when/if fuel tax revenues decline. Also electrical rates will necessarily increase by a lot if we are forced to transition to expensive green sources of energy and the grid has to increase capacity to achieve EV utopia. Nothing that hasn't been said before here, but "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop."

The trap door is going to shut on the EV low cost charging for sure. Registration fees will also increase sharply. The gubmints cheese never lasts forever.
I saw an article today telling people in Cali to conserve energy because of the heat. Blackouts are sure to follow.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Can we expect rates to get cheaper, then?

Oh hell no.

Originally Posted by Capricio

The means is unimportant, the point is the "free ride", lack of a consumption tax to maintain roads, will end for EVs at some point, if they ever take over. Remorse usually comes after the "switch" part of a "bait and switch" action. For now, enjoy the free ride.

The “free ride” has already ended. EVs don’t pay gas tax but in at least 30 states there is already a premium on the vehicle registration to account for that. In Michigan, the fee is $140. There are some states that are considering going to a “miles driven” formula that handles all vehicles the same way, but it does appear that most will be going with the additional registration fee.

[Martinjlm]

Summary - GM receives $500M in grant money to convert LGR to an EV plant. GM will continue to build CT4/5 at LGR for the foreseeable future. https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail..../0711-lgr.html

New Investments in GM’s Lansing Grand River Assembly Underscore Commitment to U.S. Manufacturing Leadership


For more than 20 years, our GM Lansing Grand River team has built luxury and performance vehicles our customers love, like the Cadillac V-Series Blackwings. Now, we’re excited to announce that with a $500 million grant from the U.S. Department of Energy and our own investment, we'll prepare Lansing Grand River for electrification.

The grant comes from a federal Domestic Manufacturing Conversion Grant program. These cost-shared grants support U.S. production of efficient hybrid, plug-in electric hybrid, plug-in electric, and hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles.

Today’s news builds on our bigger commitment to building a resilient supply chain and offering customers a wide choice of vehicles. In fact, we’ve announced over $12 billion in investments for our North American EV manufacturing and supply chain development since 2020.

Lansing Grand River will join other GM plants on our EV journey, including Factory ZERO Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly Center and Orion Assembly in Michigan, Spring Hill Manufacturing in Tennessee, Fairfax Assembly in Kansas and Toledo Propulsion Systems in Ohio. Plus, we continue to invest in an array of GM component, stamping and propulsion plants.

In addition, GM, its suppliers and joint venture partners have been making multi-billion-dollar investments to onshore the production of EV raw materials, processed materials and components, including battery cells. These supply chain initiatives are creating thousands of jobs in states including Michigan, Ohio, Tennessee, Nevada, Louisiana, Texas, North Carolina and California.

“GM’s investment and this Department of Energy grant underscore our commitment to U.S. leadership in manufacturing and innovation, making sure we’re competitive at home and abroad,” said Camilo Ballesty, GM vice president of North America Manufacturing and Labor Relations. “Our Lansing Grand River team produces incredible vehicles for our customers, and we’re proud to bring our commitment to performance and quality into our EV future.”

Lansing Grand River, represented by UAW Local 652, will continue to produce the Cadillac CT4 and CT5 (including V-Series). We look forward to sharing more details around timing, future products, and volume down the road.

[90503]

Apparently CT4 and CT5 Cadillacs have such pathetic sales numbers that they won't get it in the way.

The Camaro, though, just had to go.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Summary - GM receives $500M in grant money to convert LGR to an EV plant.

There is absolutely no way - NO WAY - on God’s green earth that anyone can honestly tell people the push for EV’s is NOT a purely, exclusively and directly politically motivated manipulation of the American automobile industry.

If this isn’t pure, blatant, undeniable proof then there is simply no such thing as an EV.

No one will ever convince me otherwise. Ever.

It’s absolutely infuriating and disgusting that our tax dollars are going to this.