Electric Vehicles

[SSE 4 2SS]

So, I take full credit for the removal of this thread for the past few days. I was on the verge of outright deleting it. I'm only bringing it back due to the comments of another moderator related to the value of the information.

If you value this thread, for whatever it offers you, I advise you to pay attention. This isn't a one liner post.

There are roughly 14 moderators on these three sites, with only a few of us active due to life, Camaro5, Camaro6, and Corvette 7. I would venture over 50% of the reports come from this thread alone.... 498,000 threads from 194,000 members and three websites.

We are members like most of you, that were asked to assist with the smooth running of this site. We were not asked to put up with BS, and that's what a lot of the problem is in this thread.

Seriously, over 50% of the reports? What does that tell you besides there are too many trolling posts and/or too many with thin skin. I promise you hundreds or maybe thousands of threads have been deleted for far less.

If you come in here, it is to pass along some info, or to gain some insight, it isn't to troll others, or report others for doing nothing different than you yourself are doing. Yes we get reports about and from the same people over and over and over again.

You cannot have it both ways. If you report someone, that's where your response STOPS. If you report and then fire back at them because your emotions got to you, then you are guilty and I will point that out shortly in the rules refresher.

If you report someone for some supposed infraction or slight, you best be sure your closet is in order, because I and others can and will look back to see what caused the offending comment in the first place. This isn't the NFL, where only the second offender gets busted.

I am going to post some of the relevant rules for a refresher, and I will add in a comment or two as needed.

You may not like what I'm saying or implying, it might hurt your feelings, but I didn't volunteer to put up with this, and I care too much for this site to go away as long as the owner will have me.

1) Respect & Be Helpful — By far, the most important rule here. Generations of GM enthusiasts have come together through a shared passion for the car and the community, so the golden rule applies: Treat others as you wish to be treated. This means no foul language, insults, or rude remarks towards other members. (You should have learned this as a young'un)


2) Agree to disagree — We encourage spirited discussions where members can contribute to the forum, and we understand that not everyone will be in agreement on a particular subject. However, repeated opposing posts with disrespectful intent to ‘win’ a debate will be moderated accordingly.

3) Off-topic forum — This should be self-explanatory. All non-model specific related discussions should take place in here. (We find EV discussion's all over the forums, and if/when found, they will be deleted or merged with this one as the one stop dump for all things EV, until such time as there is an EV model of the Camaro)

5) No “Thread-Crapping”/Vendor Feedback — do not ruin another member’s sale thread (or any other) for any reason. Feel free to report an objectionable post, or just don’t post in the thread! Like Mom used to say, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all!” Just move on. This applies to members’ and vendors’ threads alike.
(Urban Dictionary: Thread crapping occurs when a person comes into a thread and posts something contrary to the spirit/intent of the thread, often derailing the discussion) in case you are unfamiliar with the spirit of the definition. If you are found to be thread crapping, infractions will be handed out.

6) Off-Limit Discussions — There are a few topics for which we have zero tolerance policy based on past experience or simply the nature of the topic. They are: Politics (automotive-related regulations discussions are allowed), Religion, Pornography, Law Enforcement-Bashing, and Street Racing. Any posts of this nature will be removed without warning or notification at a moderator’s discretion.
(LET ME BE CLEAR), (automotive-related regulations discussions are allowed). Politics is not a catch all subject for reporting. We receive as many "Politics" reports a day currently as we receive SPAM postings, and the sad part is, spam postings come from all over all three web sites, Politics are almost exclusively in here, and mostly from a couple of members. If these members will note, more often than not, their reported posts remain, as they fit within the spirit of our rules in most cases. Now, this does not mean you can blame one party or the other for some perceived slight or because you're offended by what the other political party has said or done. It must be regulation related and still can't be bashing, but rather just the implications of what you are seeing. It can't be party platform comments, or bullet points, or slamming one candidate or another, at any level.. It won't be vote for this candidate or else postings, those will earn an immediate infraction.

The subject of poiltics, like this thread, creates far too many headaches, and thus we have the right to, and will refuse to allow subjects we don't want posted here. That's the beauty of a privately owned site.

Probably the single most important rule for those of you I'm directing most of this to...

13) Moderator Discretion — All posting activity on the forums is monitored and subject to disciplinary action based on the discretion of the admins and moderators beyond the rules specifically outlined above in an effort to serve the community at large. (If I and others are spending an inordinate amount of time tending to issues in here, we can't serve the larger community and we/I will take action to ensure it stops)

Again, if you are seeing a post you think is in violation, feel free to report it, provided you didn't goad the other person into commenting in the first place. That can and may offer you both an infraction until it stops. If you react and post back, and then report an issue, you can almost rest assured if I find it, you'll both probably receive an infraction.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by genxer

Thieves In Seattle Targeting EV Charging Stations Has Reached "Epidemic Proportions"

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology...ic-proportions

News I saw a couple days ago. Comments section better than nuked threads in this forum, fair warning to the sensitive ones.

I will bet it will get worse before it gets better. But that is will take care of itself like things usually do. The issue I have now is that a lot of those chargers are out at the end of parking lots and behind gas stations etc... what happens when you happen on someone stealing? does it turn into a dangerous situation?

EV is coming but has a long way to go yet

[90503]

....Unattended charging stations....What could go wrong?....They were a bad idea from the start.



Likely will have to become better protected, and add to the cost of charging.

Charge at home seems the only workable, low cost option.

I saw one suggestion that seemed like a good idea. No cords at the station. Each vehicle carries its own cord and plugs into the terminal.

[Martinjlm]

First of all, thanks SSE 4 SS and all the moderators for giving this thread a chance.

There are a number of charging solutions that are being considered that would eliminate the charge cord. Some are already in place in Europe. The light poles in some cities are set up as chargepoints. Some of them are BYOC. There are also some places that set up charging in the curb. Again, BYOC. These are never meant to get you your full charge, unless you are parking in the spot overnight. They are transitional "top off" chargers. You're going to the gym or going shopping or catching a quick meal. While your car is sitting around doing nothing, you can have it take on some additional charge.

They are Level 2 chargers, capable of up to 22kW. For comparison, the Level 2 charger in my garage is 11.5 kW and Tesla Superchargers (Level 3 DC Fast Charger) can operate at 150 - 350 kW. So these curb chargers would charge my vehicle faster than my home charger, but nowhere near as fast as a Supercharger or other DC Fast Charger. Actually, on 2nd thought, they might not charge my car faster than at home. It would charge as fast as my travelling cable allows it to charge which is 8 kW.

https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/produ...stone-chargers

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

BYOC public chargers would make it even easier for the "recyclers" to make a living.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

BYOC public chargers would make it even easier for the "recyclers" to make a living.

Not following your line of reasoning here. Most EVs come with or offer mobile or travel charge cords. Car pulls up to a charger and plugs in. For most (maybe all) EVs, when you plug in, the cable locks. When you are done charging you unplug and put your cable back in your car. Where do the “recyclers” come into play? Hopefully they are not dumb enough to try to cut a cable that has electric current running through it.

[Mr_Draco]

Hey Martin, what is your take on the copper shortage that is currently going around the media as another reason why EV's will fail?

I was reading one article that said just for the US to reach the current goal of half of new car sales to be EV by 2030 and build the infrastructure required to sustain this goal, that six new copper mines would have to be opened and out-putting copper by 2030 however with the current regulations, it takes 20 years for the required site surveys and studies done before a license is given out.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Not following your line of reasoning here. Most EVs come with or offer mobile or travel charge cords. Car pulls up to a charger and plugs in. For most (maybe all) EVs, when you plug in, the cable locks. When you are done charging you unplug and put your cable back in your car. Where do the “recyclers” come into play? Hopefully they are not dumb enough to try to cut a cable that has electric current running through it.

Here's the real world here in New Orleans... those cables lock, but not securely enough that they can't be quickly broken off. When people realize they are worth $10-20 or whatever each they will be seen as free money just waiting to be taken.

So let's say its noon and a zillion people see a recycler breaking the cable off a car. Nobody, but nobody is going to confront the person for fear of being shot... that is no exaggeration; you'd be an idiot to say anything.

So let's say someone calls the police. They are badly shorthanded and don't particularly care if the whole car is stolen so a charging cable is going to register near zero on the importance scale. If one is close by they may or may not check it out. Probably not.

So the recycler breaks off the cable, puts it in their backpack/shopping cart/stolen car and goes on with their days work. If, by chance, the police see them they will be arrested, booked, and released.

And that's in broad daylight.

Overnight forget about it, your cable would be almost a sure goner.

Again, that is no exaggeration, that's how it would be. The only wildcard would be if it started happening to enough tourist's cars the police would take notice.

And I can't imagine it would be much different in a lot of big cities.

Hopefully they are not dumb enough to try to cut a cable that has electric current running through it.

Recently someone here cut down a telephone pole with a chainsaw hoping to score the wire out of a LIVE TRANSFORMER. So your hope is misplaced

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Not following your line of reasoning here. Most EVs come with or offer mobile or travel charge cords. Car pulls up to a charger and plugs in. For most (maybe all) EVs, when you plug in, the cable locks. When you are done charging you unplug and put your cable back in your car. Where do the “recyclers” come into play? Hopefully they are not dumb enough to try to cut a cable that has electric current running through it.

Unless they’re designed poorly and did not pass UL regulations, any externally hanging cables should have zero volts on them when the charger is not active or anything is actively charging.

Any open cables hanging there would be very easy and completely safe for anyone with decent cutters to hack right off. This isn’t India where every hanging wire has unreliable, variable, and unregulated power.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

Hey Martin, what is your take on the copper shortage that is currently going around the media as another reason why EV's will fail?

I was reading one article that said just for the US to reach the current goal of half of new car sales to be EV by 2030 and build the infrastructure required to sustain this goal, that six new copper mines would have to be opened and out-putting copper by 2030 however with the current regulations, it takes 20 years for the required site surveys and studies done before a license is given out.

To be honest it’s something I don’t get into. We have supply chain analysts who dig deep into that stuff. If they say “nothing to see here” I’m good with it. There is one material shortage I am concerned about. Just sent my customer the detail on it. It’s something that most people have never even heard of. Hopefully we’ve provided my client enough support to avert the shortage. Won’t know for sure for several years though.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Unless they’re designed poorly and did not pass UL regulations, any externally hanging cables should have zero volts on them when the charger is not active or anything is actively charging.

Any open cables hanging there would be very easy and completely safe for anyone with decent cutters to hack right off. This isn’t India where every hanging wire has unreliable, variable, and unregulated power.

The cable isn’t hanging from the charger. It’s in the car owners trunk (or frunk) until they need to use it. Then when they are done using it it goes back in the trunk.That’s the BYOC aspect. There are no cables left hanging.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The cable isn’t hanging from the charger. It’s in the car owners trunk (or frunk) until they need to use it. Then when they are done using it it goes back in the trunk.That’s the BYOC aspect. There are no cables left hanging.

Ok Lucy, you got more ‘splainin to do

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Ok Lucy, you got more ‘splainin to do

Attachment 1153861

Well Ricky, first, go back and read post #2174 where I specifically talked about the solutions that are coming to market for Level 2 charging without cords.

Pay close attention to where I am specifically talking about Level 2 chargers that charge at 11-22 kW. Then go to my other post that includes a picture of the mobile connector that most new EVs come with or are available as an option. Those are the connectors that would plug into Level 2 chargers. So the Level 2 chargers that are being installed without cords will be useable for any EV owner who has their cord with them.

The chargers you posted are Level 3 DC Fast Chargers. Very specifically NOT the ones I was talking about. Other than that I guess you have a point.

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well Ricky, first, go back and read post #2174 where I specifically talked about the solutions that are coming to market for Level 2 charging without cords.

Pay close attention to where I am specifically talking about Level 2 chargers that charge at 11-22 kW. Then go to my other post that includes a picture of the mobile connector that most new EVs come with or are available as an option. Those are the connectors that would plug into Level 2 chargers. So the Level 2 chargers that are being installed without cords will be useable for any EV owner who has their cord with them.

The chargers you posted are Level 3 DC Fast Chargers. Very specifically NOT the ones I was talking about. Other than that I guess you have a point.

We were talking about general public chargers. Not sure what all that stuff you thought we were talking about.

The point from Iron Lung Jimmy was public Charger cables getting hacked off and stolen for the copper.

Not sure what you thought we were talking about

And eliminating cabled public charging stations is just asking for trouble. Making people carry their own cables every where they go is a sure way for people to lose them.

I know, I know…… YOU would never lose them but trust me, there’s plenty of average Americans who’d be SOL if they had to make sure they kept their cable with them all the time and then ran out of charge in the middle of nowhere.