Electric Vehicles

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Just for giggles, here's how the sales break out by brand for January 2024:

1. Tesla: 61,631
2. Ford: 7,510
3. Rivian: 4178
4. Chevrolet: 4,143
5. Hyundai: 3,904
6. BMW: 3,762
7. Mercedes: 3,639
8. Volkswagen: 3,012
9. Kia: 2,316
10. Audi: 2,219
11. Nissan: 1,821
12. Toyota: 1,169
13. Cadillac: 1,056
14. Subaru: 887
15. Lexus: 880
16. Fisker: 855
17. Polestar: 745
18. Porsche: 575
19. Volvo: 484
20. Genesis: 419
21. Lucid: 384
22. GMC: 379
23. BrightDrop: 293
24. Canoo: 267
25. Cruise: 87
26. Jaguar: 77
27. VinFast: 70
28. Rolls Royce: 40
29. Zoox: 1

What that shows is that outside of a Tesla nobody is very much interested in owning an EV. Not encouraging.

[silversleeper]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

What that shows is that outside of a Tesla nobody is very much interested in owning an EV. Not encouraging.

THat's just a conclusion looking at only this chart.
I've been in the market over a year. Look at actual out the door pricing with dealer rip offs (my local dealers demanded $15k OVER msrp and wouldn't budge from that not long back, I won't ever deal with them again even though they have a lot full now) and MSRPs and miles of range, how fast they charge and how quick they go is secondary consideration as well as qualified for rebates. That will tell you much more about why the rankings are like that. I noticed big price drops on the eMach mustang whatever it's called just last week. Price vs what you get is very much what drives the overall market. The brand thing drives some customers only.

[snizzle]

Personally, I love my Zoox.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by MSS1LE

Interesting. Ford says they sold 152,617 units in January in the US. I'm not sure where you get 7,510 total, but one of those numbers is wrong. Either yours or theirs.

BTW, Ford also said the following for January:
Electric vehicle sales totaled 4,674 units, down 10.9 percent
Hybrid vehicle sales totaled 11,157 units, up 42.7 percent
Internal combustion vehicles sales totaled 136,786 units, up 2.6 percent

https://fordauthority.com/2024/02/u-...0and%20Lincoln.

I was trying to figure that out myself and concluded that his list was just for EVs.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by silversleeper

THat's just a conclusion looking at only this chart.
I've been in the market over a year. Look at actual out the door pricing with dealer rip offs (my local dealers demanded $15k OVER msrp and wouldn't budge from that not long back, I won't ever deal with them again even though they have a lot full now) and MSRPs and miles of range, how fast they charge and how quick they go is secondary consideration as well as qualified for rebates. That will tell you much more about why the rankings are like that. I noticed big price drops on the eMach mustang whatever it's called just last week. Price vs what you get is very much what drives the overall market. The brand thing drives some customers only.

Well then I guess I could alter my statement to be - What that shows is that nobody can compete with Tesla. Not encouraging.

Either way, publicly traded companies, in a fruitless attempt to compete with Tesla, can only bleed cash for so long before the shareholders revolt.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Martin do you think Rivian and Lucid have any chance at sticking around? It sure seems like they are just burning money, losing it left and right. I saw Rivian is laying of 10% of it's workforce and the stock is down.

Lucid wil be fine. They are backed by Middle East funding. You know, the same folks that have been making money in oil? Now into EV? Just putting that out there.

Rivian will also likely be fine. Keep in mind, Tesla burned money at a furious pace for several years. They didn’t make an operating profit until either 2018 or 19. Now they’re printing money. Rivian is on a similar trajectory. At the very worst, Rivian may get acquired or if they were to fall into bankruptcy, their physical assets and intellectual property would be swooped up by a healthier competitor.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by lbls1

Very good except that Chevrolet once ranked very closely to Ford, and once lead Ford in sales in the past. I still see opportunity in Chevrolet's quest for leadership.

Chevrolet ended production of the Bolt EV and EUV in December so those models are selling out of inventory. Plus the Blazer EV is on stop sale until they work out some software issues. Also, Equinox EV is late launching. Should have been available in Q3 2023 but they are still not yet at dealerships. When Blazer EV and Equinox EV become more available, Chevrolet will most likely pass Ford.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

Personally, I love my Zoox.

I literally spit out my Body Armor.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MSS1LE

Interesting. Ford says they sold 152,617 units in January in the US. I'm not sure where you get 7,510 total, but one of those numbers is wrong. Either yours or theirs.

BTW, Ford also said the following for January:
Electric vehicle sales totaled 4,674 units, down 10.9 percent
Hybrid vehicle sales totaled 11,157 units, up 42.7 percent
Internal combustion vehicles sales totaled 136,786 units, up 2.6 percent

https://fordauthority.com/2024/02/u-...0and%20Lincoln.

In post 1766 I pointed out that there were 106,803 EVs sold in January. In post 1767 I detailed the brands that sold those 106,803 EVs. Ford may have been down in their EV sales, but EV sale in total hit a new high water mark.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

What that shows is that outside of a Tesla nobody is very much interested in owning an EV. Not encouraging.

That’s only one datapoint. Nobody can produce as many EVs as Tesla right now and you can’t sell what you can’t produce. As more automakers come up to scale production and offer more compelling products they will compete better with Tesla. But Tesla does have a 5 - 10 year head start, depending on who you’re comparing them to.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Chevrolet ended production of the Bolt EV and EUV in December so those models are selling out of inventory. Plus the Blazer EV is on stop sale until they work out some software issues. Also, Equinox EV is late launching. Should have been available in Q3 2023 but they are still not yet at dealerships. When Blazer EV and Equinox EV become more available, Chevrolet will most likely pass Ford.

At least they are working on it. This is not to say that I am a proponent of EVs, but Chevrolet should be current to the auto types that are popular on the market.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by lbls1

At least they are working on it. This is not to say that I am a proponent of EVs, but Chevrolet should be current to the auto types that are popular on the market.

It is embarrassing that GM sold out on EVs and failed this bad (thus far). They can't meet price estimates, every launch is delayed, and then the vehicle hits the market and is riddled with software flaws/bugs. Barra's strategy may have been correct years ago, and long term still may be, but they failed to execute in almost every possible way.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Lucid wil be fine. They are backed by Middle East funding. You know, the same folks that have been making money in oil? Now into EV? Just putting that out there.

Rivian will also likely be fine. Keep in mind, Tesla burned money at a furious pace for several years. They didn’t make an operating profit until either 2018 or 19. Now they’re printing money. Rivian is on a similar trajectory. At the very worst, Rivian may get acquired or if they were to fall into bankruptcy, their physical assets and intellectual property would be swooped up by a healthier competitor.

Thanks for the input. I know EVs arent everyones cup of tea but I do hope Rivian makes it. I think their vehicles at least look decent compared to the other full EV companies.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

It is embarrassing that GM sold out on EVs and failed this bad (thus far). They can't meet price estimates, every launch is delayed, and then the vehicle hits the market and is riddled with software flaws/bugs. Barra's strategy may have been correct years ago, and long term still may be, but they failed to execute in almost every possible way.

Every word of this. Good strategy (although I would not have shit-canned PHEVs) but poor execution.