[PizzzzzaForPresident]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

It's not just the engine that can be a draw or a deal killer. Transmissions too.

Years ago, I investigated the possibility of buying an expensive European car, new or used. One of the common themes that came up again and again on forums that I visited was that many of those cars used a dual clutch automatic transmission that routinely failed very 20,000 miles or less.

Even my son who bought a used low mileage Lamborghini told me that one of the things he was warned about was to NOT allow the car to shift automatically - rather you should use the paddles only, because otherwise the tranny will need work much sooner.

Which car? Porsche's PDK and Audi's modern DCT's can take a beating. The Lamborghini one you're referring to is the Audi E-Gear, which are truly clutch eating junk, but they're not DCT's. They're basically a standard manual transmissions that are actuated automatically. Ferrari had a similar one called the F1, but at least they had enough common sense to ditch them in the late 2000's.

[JimGnitecki]

Originally Posted by PizzzzzaForPresident

Which car? Porsche's PDK and Audi's modern DCT's can take a beating. The Lamborghini one you're referring to is the Audi E-Gear, which are truly clutch eating junk, but they're not DCT's. They're basically a standard manual transmissions that are actuated automatically. Ferrari had a similar one called the F1, but at least they had enough common sense to ditch them in the late 2000's.

The one i remember most vividly was the Aston Martin, but I cannot remember the model. The owners were complaining that the dual clutch transmission was failing at 20,000 miles or sooner, repeatedly. I recall seeing a LOT of those for sale used with low miles . . .

Jim G

[PizzzzzaForPresident]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

The one i remember most vividly was the Aston Martin, but I cannot remember the model. The owners were complaining that the dual clutch transmission was failing at 20,000 miles or sooner, repeatedly. I recall seeing a LOT of those for sale used with low miles . . .

Jim G

They're such beautiful cars. That would be the Sportshift transmissions which weren't dual clutch transmissions, but of the same style of crappy automated-manual transmission like the Audi E-tron found in your son's Lambo, along with the Ferrari F1, which was also found in some early-mid 2000's Maseratis. Aston finally replaced it for the 2018+ year with something that has a good reputation, the ZF8. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Aston Martin has ever used a DCT on their normal road cars.

There are a lot of great dual clutch transmissions out there, you should give them a chance. Porsche's PDK is beyond magic. It can take a beating from their highest performing models and they shift faster than the best standard autos. I know the current R8/Huracan DCT is also far beyond the abilities of the E-Tron transmission it replaced from the Gallardo/1st gen R8.

[Briland_1LE]

Originally Posted by JimGnitecki

The one i remember most vividly was the Aston Martin, but I cannot remember the model. The owners were complaining that the dual clutch transmission was failing at 20,000 miles or sooner, repeatedly. I recall seeing a LOT of those for sale used with low miles . . .

Jim G

DCT transmissions are "bulletproof" as a result of how they function because they have two clutches and can transmit the torque seamlessly leading to high reliability and high performance at the expensive of cost and being "harsh" when shifting at low loads. You're referring to the last generation of transmission which are single clutch robotized manuals seen in all manufacturers of that era.

[Vivid_1LE]

Interesting times considering the ZLE is 4-5 seconds quicker around the ring than the M4 CSL and the ZR1 would certainly be faster than that.

[KirillWA]

Since the thread went sideways with Camaro vs Supra discussion... Throttle House showed that any 1LE is faster than Supra.
Here in Washington State when you go to Toyota dealership to buy Supra, you are not getting same nice treatment as in BMW dealership. Guys who make money for selling Corollas, Tacomas and Tundras with $5K+ markups will charge you $10K markup for automatic Supra and $15K markup for the manual. No custom orders - you pay $2k to get in the waiting line and you will get what they will get.

So in real world it means $60K-$70K for manual Supra vs $45-50K for 1SS 1LE. Hard to justify such price difference with such negligible time difference on the track.

M4 CSL is a great car, no doubt, but there are no many other great options when you go to $100K++ territory.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Vivid_1LE

Interesting times considering the ZLE is 4-5 seconds quicker around the ring than the M4 CSL and the ZR1 would certainly be faster than that.

Right, this course doesn’t have very many long, straightaway‘s, and it’s very bumpy which didn’t work well with the Camaros very stiff suspension.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Vivid_1LE

Interesting times considering the ZLE is 4-5 seconds quicker around the ring than the M4 CSL and the ZR1 would certainly be faster than that.

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Right, this course doesn’t have very many long, straightaway‘s, and it’s very bumpy which didn’t work well with the Camaros very stiff suspension.

Yes, and also as I stated previously, the track was greener 3 years ago when they did the ZLE M6 time. Also, I think Thomas is probably a better driver now, too. I wish they'd test a regular ZL1 A10 now with the improved conditions.

[Bosse'sBoss]

I wounder why nobody had tested a 6th gen Camaro SS1LE VS the Mustang Mach1 or the SS1LE VS Shelby GT350 or GT350R? Probably Ford is preventing this afraid that their overpriced Mustangs would be beated by the Camaro.

[Bosse'sBoss]

I remember that I tried a Cayman S with the beloved DCT PDK when I was on the middle of replacing my Corvette C7 Z51 AT. I was not able to be amazed by the Cayman, I was trying to find an alternative to the MT since my wife was the reason that I went to AT. The weak engine noise, and the lack of power, no push in the back feeling while shifting compared to a strong V8, the shifting of the DCT felt just like playing with a video game, lack of excitment compared with a nice shifting MT that provides more driver's involvement feeling. The interior was very cramped, more cramped than the cabin of my prior Porsche Carrera 911. Don't have any doubt that the PDK is a very fast and precise shifter but the Cayman S which was one of my dream car, wasn't the car for me, instead I went to get a 6th gen Camaro SS and was very happy to go back to a V8 with a 6MT.

[Bosse'sBoss]

My '02 Porsche 911Carrera MT and my '14 Corvette C7 Z51 A6 were a couple of unreliable expensive to maintain lemon sport cars compared to my '11 Mustang GT MT, 5th gen '14 Camaro ZL1 AT and my 6th gen Camaro SS MT that were more reliable never gave me a headache and much less expensive to maintain.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I wounder why nobody had tested a 6th gen Camaro SS1LE VS the Mustang Mach1 or the SS1LE VS Shelby GT350 or GT350R? Probably Ford is preventing this afraid that their overpriced Mustangs would be beated by the Camaro.

Randy pobst actually ran the Camaro against the m1, and the latter did better. It’s on YouTube. To be fair the Camaro wasn’t in great shape and with bad brakes.
Check out the motor trend review below, though. They liked the Camaro more.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/...500-test-data/

[Bosse'sBoss]

Yes very nice review by MT. Yes I saw that comparison by Randy Pobst, didn't feel that it was fair for the SS1LE because the tires and wheel sizes weren't stock, brakes pads not stock. Was AT VS MT not same transmission on both cars. All the ingredients were wrong, that comparison was a waste of time from my point of view.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

I wounder why nobody had tested a 6th gen Camaro SS1LE VS the Mustang Mach1 or the SS1LE VS Shelby GT350 or GT350R? Probably Ford is preventing this afraid that their overpriced Mustangs would be beated by the Camaro.

While I think a SS 1le would be right on par with the regular gt350 and possibly the Mach 1, it will not come close to the GT350 R. Motor trend compared the 350 R to the zl1 and it was surprisingly close even though the R is down 125 horsepower.