Dodge ending challenger & charger production

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Zr8000

They can’t wait to phase out ice cars. Then they can build one system for the entire line up and put it in different model cars. Then sell you features for what you want it to do as add ons.

they aren't waiting. ICE cars are getting features made into subscriptions now (and that started years ago). That too, was something that was going to happen no matter what powered your car, it has nothing to do with the engine/motor.

Same with the "flexible" frame method of manufacturing. That's a trajectory manufacturers have been increasingly moving towards in ICE land anyway. EV just allows them to delete many support items to ICE engines (which may be more model specific) so it's even easier. But i wouldn't pretend that a common body wasn't something manufacturers were moving toward anyway, because we have many examples of that being the case even with our own car.

Your dystopian car driving future was going to happen no matter what because what's driving it had nothing to do with what you are implying.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by rlarsen462

Buying an EV to save on gas is literally the dumbest thing imaginable. I got an email today from my electric company (who has a portal to buy electric cars on their website...imagine Chevron doing that with ICE cars lol) saying I can charge for $1/gal equivalent to fuel.

Okay so let's pretend we don't have the dumbest administration on the planet and US gasoline is still $2.50/gal in my area for the sake of argument (it was actually <$2 at one point only a couple years ago).

Let's also say I have a vehicle which gets a modest 20MPG.

So I am saving, using their math, $1.50 every 20 miles I drive.

Extrapolating (I'll let you confirm my math if it's that important to you), this means $7500 in savings (assuming NO increase in electricity rates or decrease in fuel cost, or a more fuel efficient vehicle, etc. etc.) for every 100,000 miles driven.

Let's make it even stupider and say I get 10MPG and gasoline is $5/gal (and still assuming no increase in electric utility rates)...then I save $40,000 over 100K miles...which will barely cover a base model, or very small/uninspiring EV at best. The 10MPG example by the way is my TRX...

Using the "you'll save so much on fuel!" argument is ridiculous, deceptive, and literally only begins to hold up if fleet fuel efficiency is atrocious (it's not, and continually improves), and governments continue hostility to gasoline production artificially inflating prices.

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Stop! Please stop! You're making way too much sense and that's not something the green group appreciates.

The math is much easier than you’re making it and there are already studied numbers you can use, so all the guesswork is taken out.

Objective studies of the cost to operate electric vehicle put the cost at $0.045 per mile, not the $0.075 per mile you’ve based your math on. https://ecocostsavings.com/electric-car-cost-per-mile/. So, if you drive 15,000 miles/yr at $0.045 per mile, you spend $675 a year to “fuel” your car. My MR2 is tracking along now at $0.20/ mile. Haven’t calculated that for my Camaro, but I can assure you it’s worse (but I don’t care, because Camaro ).

I could also add that my wife’s Volt, which does sip a little petro every now and then, costs us less than $40/month. I know this because it is literally on a separate meter. So roughly $480 a year, plus the two or three times a year that she refuels the 8 gallon gas tank.

[bigd1276]

My prediction is your $480/year will be rising...

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Thing is, if it costs EV owners $1/kWh it will cost all of us $1/kWh. For everything. Including the electricity to keep our lights on and our food cold.

Yup, that is my biggest concern to be honest. Path of least resistance, punishing non-EV owners even deeper. It's difficult to maintain multiple different rates and prevent abuse, much simpler to just tax'em all.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by bigd1276

My prediction is your $480/year will be rising...

Could be. But there’s a lot of room between the $480 that the Volt costs per year and the $3,000 that it would take to operate my MR2 at 15,000 miles per year. (15,000 miles x $0.20 / mile). I don’t drive it that much. This is just for comparing my most efficient gas vehicle to our EREV.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Yup, that is my biggest concern to be honest. Path of least resistance, punishing non-EV owners even deeper. It's difficult to maintain multiple different rates and prevent abuse, much simpler to just tax'em all.

electricity isn't a government utility that they tax us in order to pay for.

they're almost all private companies that directly sell to consumers and exist in a market where competition can and does at times exist unless the public in a locality vote to give them monopoly rights.

At the very least, barring any kind of corporate competition, anyone with property that they own can produce their own electricity if they have access to some of the methods of doing so. This would create a natural competing price of electricity that would keep electric companies from just setting an arbitrary price like oil and gas companies do for fuel. Unless you think they'll buy all of the solar / wind / geothermal type electric production means or make them illegal and the public will just go along with that.

[haggler]

Were paying .30 - .50 a kWh between transmission and generation in green california and still suffer rolling blackouts when temps are above 100F... In 5 years I expect it to be double.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

A couple of imbeciles got together and assembled this list of vehicles delivered to customers last month. The green ones are EVs that nobody wants.

July Vehicle Deliveries
Dodge Charger: 8,755
Mach E: 4,970
Dodge Challenger: 4,667
Chevy Bolt EUV: 3,541
Ford Mustang: 3,367
Volkswagen ID.4: 2,730
Chevrolet Camaro: 2,448
Chevrolet Corvette: 2,283
Hyundai Ioniq 5: 1,978
Kia EV6: 1,716
Toyota 86: 1,497
Toyota Supra: 532
Mazda Miata: 268
Subaru BRZ: 228
BMW Z4: 175

You forgot Tesla at around 255,000 for Q2.

By the way, I wonder how much the Kia sales will be impacted now with the new EV legislation? Those Kias just went up $7,500. Tesla and GM probably happy about it to help level the playing field.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Perfect time for GM to change their plans and re-design the Camaro, then continue production. Build a twin turbo V6 and turn it loose.

They did, it just has 4 doors and a Cadillac badge on it, the CT4V Blackwing.

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

They did, it just has 4 doors and a Cadillac badge on it, the CT4V Blackwing.

I tried getting my hands on one of those and the damn markups really killed it for me. I still think it's a hell of a car and a worthy performance vehicle. Although admittedly if it were AWD, I think I would have made more of a concerted effort to get one.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

I tried getting my hands on one of those and the damn markups really killed it for me. I still think it's a hell of a car and a worthy performance vehicle. Although admittedly if it were AWD, I think I would have made more of a concerted effort to get one.

Yeah, they are all marked up around my area as well. I have an order in for one at MSRP but I question if it will ever get built in time before they end production. If it does, I will trade the ZL1 for it. If not, I will drive into the ICE sunset with my ZL1.

[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The math is much easier than you’re making it and there are already studied numbers you can use, so all the guesswork is taken out.

Objective studies of the cost to operate electric vehicle put the cost at $0.045 per mile, not the $0.075 per mile you’ve based your math on. https://ecocostsavings.com/electric-car-cost-per-mile/. So, if you drive 15,000 miles/yr at $0.045 per mile, you spend $675 a year to “fuel” your car. My MR2 is tracking along now at $0.20/ mile. Haven’t calculated that for my Camaro, but I can assure you it’s worse (but I don’t care, because Camaro ).

I could also add that my wife’s Volt, which does sip a little petro every now and then, costs us less than $40/month. I know this because it is literally on a separate meter. So roughly $480 a year, plus the two or three times a year that she refuels the 8 gallon gas tank.

Well FWIW the email I got from my electricity monopoly supplier (XCel, who has every incentive to downplay the costs of charging) said verbatim: "Did you know that you can charge an electric vehicle from the comfort of your home for about $1 per gallon equivalent?" I THINK with your math @ $0.045/mile that equivalates to a comparison to a 22MPG vehicle (basically saying an EV can go 22 miles for $1?)?

[raptor5244]

I am not gonna lie, I do get a little envious of all the fun they have over at Dodge. At least they are making a concerted effort to transition their customer base.

[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by bigd1276

My prediction is your $480/year will be rising...

I suspect his $675/year for running the EV will be rising a lot more.