New Subaru/Toyota Coupe Possible STi Variant

[Crowley]

Gonna be a fun car for sure .. STi version will do very well!

Crowley

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Why did you faceslap me? The ATS coupe with the Turbo 2.8L and a sport suspension would destroy the Toyobaru!

I 'face slapped' you because I said the SUBI would look like a Ferrari, and you said, No the ATS coupe looks like this!!!


And What are you basing this on?


The ATS coupe will be hundreds of LB's heavier, and still not have AWD. The Subi will likely have a better power/weight ratio, more aftermarket, and be a better handling/balanced car. ''Sport suspension''? Are you talking factory or aftermarket? Factory, the Subi will kill it, and aftermarket is dumb to compare.... but if you really want to compare than the STi is going to be a lighter more nimble car with likely much more in the way of aftermarket.

I see no reason to believe that the ATS coupe will even be able to compete with this new car IF they make an STi variant.

[MrIcky]

I have to be honest on this, the Subaru actually looks like a winner. I've never really like the Evo/STi sedan look for a 'sports car'. If it weighs around 3300 like the current WRX with awd and at least 280 hp (more is of course better) then it's going to be a standout assuming they don't outprice the market.

(edit, the 280 was what I saw on another rumor site)

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MrIcky

I have to be honest on this, the Subaru actually looks like a winner. I've never really like the Evo/STi sedan look for a 'sports car'. If it weighs around 3300 like the current WRX with awd and at least 280 hp (more is of course better) then it's going to be a standout assuming they don't outprice the market.

(edit, the 280 was what I saw on another rumor site)

I'd say the odd's of seeing a 280hp car out of Subi is unlikely.

The WRX is 265hp which is too close as it is to the STi which sits at 300.... It doesn't quite make sense for them to build a car with 280 which would rival its top dog (STi)

I see this car either going weak and coming up with either the same 265hp engine from the WRX.... OR it becomes variant of the STi and keeps the 300hp Boxer engine.

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I 'face slapped' you because I said the SUBI would look like a Ferrari, and you said, No the ATS coupe looks like this!!!


And What are you basing this on?


The ATS coupe will be hundreds of LB's heavier, and still not have AWD. The Subi will likely have a better power/weight ratio, more aftermarket, and be a better handling/balanced car. ''Sport suspension''? Are you talking factory or aftermarket? Factory, the Subi will kill it, and aftermarket is dumb to compare.... but if you really want to compare than the STi is going to be a lighter more nimble car with likely much more in the way of aftermarket.

I see no reason to believe that the ATS coupe will even be able to compete with this new car IF they make an STi variant.

Zeus, tell me how you think a 2.0 liter Toyobaru would beat a 2.8L Turbo version of the ATS...basically an ATS-V (which would include the performance suspension). The Toyobaru would get spanked. AS for the AWD...tell me what advantage you think AWD gives. In a Forester...yeah it makes sense...but in the Toyobaru, lacking ground clearance, the front of the car will only serve as a snowplow.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I'd say the odd's of seeing a 280hp car out of Subi is unlikely.

The WRX is 265hp which is too close as it is to the STi which sits at 300.... It doesn't quite make sense for them to build a car with 280 which would rival its top dog (STi)

I see this car either going weak and coming up with either the same 265hp engine from the WRX.... OR it becomes variant of the STi and keeps the 300hp Boxer engine.

Dammit Zeus, I read it on the interwebs- therefore it must be true!

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Zeus, tell me how you think a 2.0 liter Toyobaru would beat a 2.8L Turbo version of the ATS...basically an ATS-V (which would include the performance suspension). The Toyobaru would get spanked. AS for the AWD...tell me what advantage you think AWD gives. In a Forester...yeah it makes sense...but in the Toyobaru, lacking ground clearance, the front of the car will only serve as a snowplow.

lol

I just explained it, if you feel like bringing up an intelligent argument, feel free. and no. 2.0l vs. 2.8l is not an intelligent argument.

Originally Posted by MrIcky

Dammit Zeus, I read it on the interwebs- therefore it must be true!

Can't argue with that.

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by Zeus

lol

I just explained it, if you feel like bringing up an intelligent argument, feel free. and no. 2.0l vs. 2.8l is not an intelligent argument.



Can't argue with that.

Right back at you. Your the guy that's trying to pump people about an underpowered Toyobaru.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Right back at you. Your the guy that's trying to pump people about an underpowered Toyobaru.

I already answered you. You have yet to reply with any shred of intelligence.

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I already answered you. You have yet to reply with any shred of intelligence.

Never mind the underpowered 250hp 2.0L motor in the Toyobaru, you can also forget the 33K price...it will run higher than that by the time it hits the market. You haven't "answered" anything.

[lil_chef]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Zeus, tell me how you think a 2.0 liter Toyobaru would beat a 2.8L Turbo version of the ATS...basically an ATS-V (which would include the performance suspension). The Toyobaru would get spanked. AS for the AWD...tell me what advantage you think AWD gives. In a Forester...yeah it makes sense...but in the Toyobaru, lacking ground clearance, the front of the car will only serve as a snowplow.

Your assuming the "ATS-V" wont be priced for the car it is, a Cadillac. for that reason alone the "ATS-V" will be at a disadvantage. a cadillac isnt allowed to be as sporty as a bare bones subaru racer. it is expected to be elegant and luxurious.

while i would buy an ATS-V over the subaru, there is no reason to expect the ATS to be faster. and the subaru should cost a little less than half the price of the cadillac....putting them in different categories.

^ that is assuming the ATS-V is priced in the 40-50k range

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by lil_chef

Your assuming the "ATS-V" wont be priced for the car it is, a Cadillac. for that reason alone the "ATS-V" will be at a disadvantage. a cadillac isnt allowed to be as sporty as a bare bones subaru racer. it is expected to be elegant and luxurious.

while i would buy an ATS-V over the subaru, there is no reason to expect the ATS to be faster. and the subaru should cost a little less than half the price of the cadillac....putting them in different categories.

^ that is assuming the ATS-V is priced in the 40-50k range

The Toyobaru to be half the price of the ATS? Highly doubtful. The Toyota version will be mid-30's and the Subaru will be higher.

[ConceptVBS]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Meh, put the 2.8L turbo that is going into the SRX into the ATS coupe and the Caddy will kick its @ss.

Um wishful thinking but not happening.

This car is almost production ready.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Never mind the underpowered 250hp 2.0L motor in the Toyobaru, you can also forget the 33K price...it will run higher than that by the time it hits the market. You haven't "answered" anything.

Ok Imma make this quick.


Reason's the Caddy would loose.

1. Weight. The CTS-V weighs more than a Challenger SRT8, 4277lbs to be exact, which is 300-400lbs more than the regular CTS. Translation? GM performance division add's weight to add performance, it doesn't reduce weight to increase performance. The ''ATS-V'' will be lucky to sit at 4000lbs.

2. Price. Are you seriously going to compare the two? Any ''V'' car that Caddy were to make would sit well above a real comparison price.... I'd be shocked to see anything lower than 50k. The CTS-V starts at 62k and only goes up with options.

3. Competition. The ATS-V, if it were to be built, would be built to compete with cars like the M3. Performance capable along with quality and everyday drive ability at the sake of raw performance. Easier to live with but a whole lot less fun. The fact that its a Cadillac means that it appeals to a certain upscale crowd.... The subaru has no such woes and doesn't throw away hundreds of lb's of curb weight to luxury and ride quality. The Subi can focus on performance, and that is just as well because it would be the more fun of the two.

The Reason the Subi would win.

1. Price. Your way off with your prices. The TOP OF THE LINE subi performance car right now, the STi, starts at 34k.... If this new Subi (which would use the same engine/suspension/transmission/etc.... comes out as an STi variant, it isn't going to cost any more than the 4 door version. The Toyota version will likely come out at mid/high 20's (think genesis coupe) while the Subaru will have the 300hp/300lbft Boxer engine and come out at low to mid 30's.

2. One is an enthusiasts car, one is a gentleman's race car. The Subaru would be the more fun of the two... lighter, much better handling, likely just as fast, MUCH faster after mod's (Turbo + AWD). Example: you own a 65k Caddy and a 35k Subi STi. Both put down great track times, and both are fun to take to the track... minus the fact that one is easily placed and never looses traction while the other one fights for traction and feels like a boat through tight corners... which one would you feel more comfortable pushing hard on the track? I know I wouldn't want anything to break on my new Caddy, those high performance parts are expensive and goodluck getting your dealer to cover that.

Any other questions, I'd love to clear it up right away for you.