09-10-2021, 09:34 PM | #71 | |
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09-10-2021, 10:48 PM | #72 |
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Hmm, well you do you. I'm not sure you know what state I'm in, based on your response.
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09-11-2021, 03:53 AM | #73 | ||||
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Well obviously by the time it rolls around they will have built a better infrastructure that can handle it more effectively. Last edited by BlaqWhole; 09-11-2021 at 06:39 AM. |
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09-11-2021, 04:05 AM | #74 | ||
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And initially there likely won't be any ways to modify them. But soon enough there will be. Look at the world of electric RCs. Those guys mod all the time. Those things can hit 50+ MPH. The Traxxis can hit 100 MPH, lol, and that is stock. There are ways to modify them. And there will be ways to modify EVs for sure. Just initially on a much more pricey scale. But for those who got the coin it won't be a problem. |
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09-11-2021, 05:26 AM | #75 | |
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This is my main problem with electric vehicles, nothing wrong with their capable powertrains, but they're pretty much appliances on wheels... when were able to mod your microwave oven to fix anything? Or your smart TV, to turn off that pesky camera you didn't want in the first place, preserving other functionality? Even if you're willing to throw thousands of dollars at it (alluding to your coin argument)? Can you change one single feature on a Tesla? And even if you can hack something up, the mothership can and will bring the hammer down... I watch Rich Rebuilds on youtube and he's an unsung hero in many ways, but all that shouldn't be necessary. It sure is an uphill battle, yet one worth fighting, first of all because of the potential you highlighted, but mostly because the alternative the industry is marching towards is downright dystopian. 100% open source software and right to repair with full documentation would be the ideal (and somewhat unattainable, yet worthy) moonshot goal here.
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09-11-2021, 08:25 AM | #76 |
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Except, that's exactly how it works.
One major flaw with EV's is the amount of time it takes to "fill the tank" compared to ICE automobiles. One way around it is to speed up the charging speed, but that increases heat internally in the battery. And that's highly detrimental to the life of the battery. So, a handful of high-speed, high-temp charges are going to do a reasonable amount of "damage" to a battery in terms of premature wear. Was my comment an exaggeration? Yes. But the point I was trying to make wasn't. |
09-11-2021, 05:04 PM | #77 | |
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You guys are all acting like it's Doomsday or something. I mean, did you think we would be completely reliant on a limited resource forever? There are more and more people these days which means more and more cars which means more and more consumption. How long before we completely tax out a source that we are completely reliant on? And then what? The change was bound to happen and I prefer sooner rather than too late. If it bothers you that much then keep driving gas powered vehicles. Make your own gas like others keep suggesting. Eventually after you blow up a few engines chasing some dream and after seeing much newer and way faster cars out there you will fold and join the majority. |
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09-12-2021, 11:46 AM | #78 | |
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Granted, you could argue that it's more efficient to generate electricity and use it in EV, but your argument is mainly focused on how gasoline is a limited resource. Well, so is other forms of fossil fuels(other than maybe natural gas, though I am not sure how fast we are generating that versus how fast we are using it), and uranium. Renewables are too dependant on geographical locations. You can practically build a fossil fuel or nuclear power plant anywhere you want as long as it's remote enough, but renewables? You are limited to where it is windy/has enough water flow/sunny(solar takes up a crap ton of land, BTW).
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09-12-2021, 04:55 PM | #79 | |
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Want to have fun with a politician? Take up the argument that EVERY form of energy is ultimately solar energy. They will want to argue, so ask them to name a form of energy that isn't ultimately derived from the sun. They can't. The issue with renewable energy is less about being "only where it's windy" (for example) and more about the sheer volume of real estate required for the amount of energy produced. The only place I could install solar panels on my home is on the roof (no ground-mounted options allowed, and it would consume my entire yard even if it were). Ok... No issue... 2600 square foot ranch, so LOTS of real estate on the roof. But, you can really only use half of it (has to face the correct direction) at best. Central Air, filter for a pool, blower fans to circulate the heat in the winter, and a 3/4 full server cabinet that I use as a home lab for work. I couldn't produce enough power to run my house on the sunniest of days. So, what's the point? |
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09-12-2021, 08:50 PM | #80 | |
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09-12-2021, 09:11 PM | #81 | |
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The other side of the story is that internal combustion engines available today are more advanced than at anytime in history and are approaching theoretical levels of efficiency. What automakers are saying is they will not spend the extra money required to make them marginally more efficient. That development money is going into improving battery efficiency and electric motor efficiency. But many of the more efficient internal combustion engines that are available today will continue to be available for as long as it is economically feasible for the automaker(s) to continue to offer them. For most of us on this board, there will still be new ICE powered vehicles sold on the day we assume room temperature. Maybe not in some states, depending on what eventually comes of all the state mandates.
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09-13-2021, 11:46 AM | #82 | ||
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Now to be fair, most of the electricity in my province does come from hydroelectricity, so there is some truth in the zero-emission bit, though if you really want to get down to it, those machines need to be maintained and lubricated, and guess what is needed to make lubricants? Anyway, the local hydro generation is seeing some challenges with expansion between costly construction, COVID outbreaks, and some opposition. It will probably take a while to finish. And you don't have to tell me how much solar power generation blows, I have experience with that firsthand in one of my university courses. Our final project basically had a building on campus assigned to a group, and we are supposed to install as many solar panels as we can with each of them positioned to achieve maximum efficiency. The simulations were done with System Advisor Model (SAM) which is made by National Renewable Energy Laboratory. The end result? No group was able to report a profit, or even close to minimal financial loss. IIRC the loss for the building assigned to our group was in the range of hundreds of thousands, if not close to a million over the life of the panel. It's too cost-prohibitive to install for little return on a very large scale. Quote:
Gas engine dying is also hilarious. Now, this is a bit cheating but think outside of cars for a bit. Sea vessels and ground vehicles are okay with anything electric because weight doesn't matter as much, and if your sea vessel is large enough, you can even just make the electricity onboard with nuclear reactions. But even then, if sea vessels need to travel a long distance, it's simply not feasible to just charge up a massive battery onboard. And then there is aviation... Even making those hybrid is a royal pain now, let alone fully electric. Good luck lifting up those heavy batteries with their awful energy density! It's extra fun to just know that aviation uses a ton of fuel as well, naturally. I hope you never travel around! There is no point waiting until the last minute, you said? I see many reasons, since EVs are far from mature. It's kind of like buying those first generation Samsung foldable smartphones. You are paying a premium price for a tech that's not quite there yet, and some problems still need solving. Right now, the best thing to do when EV catches fire is to just wait for it to burn out, while we have a lot of experience fighting ICE fire at this point(and it is just physically easier to put out than lithium fire). I would rather wait and then buy a product that's superior to what your impatience-filled Kool-Aid made you buy with less money. The only winners on public roads are the ones who don't get speeding tickets, BTW. Can't go fast when cops pull you over, can you?
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09-13-2021, 01:33 PM | #83 | |
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The next step is to improve the cost of EVs and improve charge times. There are people burning midnight oil to achieve both of those things. It will happen sooner than later. Part of the reason automakers are actually ahead of the government in embracing the move towards EV is the long term cost potential. Right now GM has somewhere around 12-15 vehicle platforms in development and production, depending on how you define platform. When GM shifts to mostly EV, they will be able to deliver most of their portfolio using two platforms, BEV3 for sedans and crossovers, BET for trucks and SUVs. They will be able to mix and match eMotors and drive units to achieve performance and capability targets. Battery sizes will be flexible like lego sets to deliver multiple options for range and vehicle output. Once these are in place, development costs per unit produced will drop dramatically. 2021 was the year that EVs crossed the 10% of sales line in California. 2022 will be the year they cross the 5% line nationwide. And as a nation, the US is far behind other leading car markets. Still, ICE will not totally disappear. There are some use cases where ICE continues to work best. It’s not so much an “either or” scenario, it’s an “and” scenario.
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09-13-2021, 01:41 PM | #84 | |
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While the vehicle part of EV may have a level of maturity, the power part does not. We need to lighten batteries, reduce size, increase charge capacity, decrease charge time, reduce hazard risk during charging, improve ability to recycle, decrease cost, and significantly improve reliability. And that's just off the top of my head. I still genuinely don't understand why there was never a market for a diesel electric automobile... All the benefits that everyone decries from the electric motor part of the world combined with a smaller overall battery pack that can be kept charged by a tiny diesel engine (which could be controlled with stop/start technology). Seems it would be super reliable, able to traverse long distances, able to actually refuel in short orders of time, and would significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions through the way the engine operation would be controlled. |
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