Why so much Camaro 6th gen bashing on article comments?

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by STReddy1999

Yeah I thought it was funny because there's the meme that vegans always find a way to interject "meat is murder" or something into conversations that have nothing to do with meat or anything and on here people were saying nobody was talking about V6's yet somebody said people were V6 bashing.

I only skimmed through those 10 pages but I'm pretty sure nobody explicitly mentioned the V6 model or spoke negatively about it except the few times people said something about "lower trim models". Except until afterwards when gtfoxy purposely bashed the V6 model in response.

I've owned a V6 and I agree with most of what they were saying. They are built because it's cheaper than a SS and the average person can't afford the SS. Doesn't mean it's a bad car though, it's still a Camaro after all.

Can't afford an SS that's when you like buy a used 2016 SS or if you want new you buy a stripper LT1. or used LT1



No way I was going to buy a new 2ss for like 45 plus k. Got a 2016 2SS very low miles for 31,200.


Much rather have a used SS or LT1 than buy a new v6. by the time you're adding options to the v6 you might as well buy a used 2016 1ss or used stripper LT1.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

The 285 BHP limit was back in the Bubble Economy days. It was never a hard, legal limit to start with, more just a unspoken rule/agreement that Japanese manufacturers stuck with at the time.

I think the last reason would be the most likely one. They just didn't want to put too much effort for some minute change into a low-volume sports car.



As a past rotary owner, it's not happening, period.

The biggest problem with rotary is that it doesn't have the economy of scale. The more you make something, the cheaper it is to make as the R&D is more spread out. Small blocks and Modulars are so successful and become what they are today not because of Corvette's, Camaro's and Mustang's, but because of Silverado's and F150's. High-volume vehicles like these reel in the money for the R&D cost of these engines so they perform better and better while still being able to keep up with the ever more stringent emission standards. Most sports cars follow this pattern as well, like how Zupr4 uses a BMW engine, Miata uses an engine similar to Mazda's family car engine, etc.

Sports cars that use unique engines that are not supercars all but died. See S2000 and Viper for examples.

Mazda tried putting rotaries in everything before. They even had a rotary pick-up truck and a small rotary bus capable of carrying 26 passengers. Rotary's fuel economy problems forced them to later narrow it to sports car use only. This worked during Bubble Economy, but as the bubble bursted, that fell apart.

The Renesis(13B-MSP) in the RX-8 showcased what happens when you R&D a rotary on a limited budget while having to meet stricter emission standards. It destroyed the good reliability reputation that NA RX-7's had.

And then there is the fact that everyone is moving to EV now. Companies like Audi have started pulling plugs on their ICE research at this point. Sources have indicated that Mazda has largely stopped rotary R&D as well, save for the hybrid shoebox single-rotor engine, which isn't something that can be converted to be used in an ICE-only sports car easily.

Lastly, Mazda is never that big or rich to start with. Not realistic for them to start some risky projects that's not guaranteed to give them a return.

TL; DR: Buy an ND Miata and do a rotary swap yourself. Don't count on Mazda anymore. NC Miata works too, you can bolt RX-8's front subframe right onto an NC, which solves half of your problems.

RX8’s are all over with blown Apex seals. It’s not overly costly, or time consuming, to do them if you know what you’re doing. Problem is, apparently, the vast majority of people don’t.

I think they are prime LS swap candidates to be had on the cheap.

[Crushin_LT1]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Can't afford an SS that's when you like buy a used 2016 SS or if you want new you buy a stripper LT1. or used LT1



No way I was going to buy a new 2ss for like 45 plus k. Got a 2016 2SS very low miles for 31,200.


Much rather have a used SS or LT1 than buy a new v6. by the time you're adding options to the v6 you might as well buy a used 2016 1ss or used stripper LT1.

Running costs are higher all around for the V8.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by Crushin_LT1

Running costs are higher all around for the V8.

That's true for gas, oil changes, insurance. Lets say it's an extra two grand a year in cost. It's still worth it anyway IMO. If you're scraping just enough money to barely afford to own a v6 Camaro you should be driving a different car then and have different priorities.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

Can't afford an SS that's when you like buy a used 2016 SS or if you want new you buy a stripper LT1. or used LT1



No way I was going to buy a new 2ss for like 45 plus k. Got a 2016 2SS very low miles for 31,200.


Much rather have a used SS or LT1 than buy a new v6. by the time you're adding options to the v6 you might as well buy a used 2016 1ss or used stripper LT1.

Eh, if you live in a place where you never get to open the engine up for WOT runs for a V8 and never hit the track, a V6 is a fine choice. That said, the V8 growl is addicting and you get extra respect for V8, naturally.

2.0T could be good for the tuner crowd. That's why they made the 2.0T Camaro.

And interior options are nice if you are using your Camaro as a DD, like I am. Wouldn't really want a stripper for DD purposes. As a weekend warrior or a track toy, that's a different story.

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

RX8’s are all over with blown Apex seals. It’s not overly costly, or time consuming, to do them if you know what you’re doing. Problem is, apparently, the vast majority of people don’t.

I think they are prime LS swap candidates to be had on the cheap.

Actually, it is very time-consuming. You are thinking of a head gasket. You have to rip the engine out and tear it down to reach apex seals. Granted, a rotary engine is a lot simpler in construction than a piston engine, but it's no head gasket job and requires a lot of dedicated tools.

And when apex seals go, it's never just the seals. By the time they fail(whether slowly by wear or more volently by shattering), the housings and plates(and rotors if the failure is the latter, more violent type) are probably done as well. That's why it's usually just a good idea to buy a remanufactured engine(which is about 3 grand from Mazda, or you could buy a more customized one from reputable rebuilders like Pineapple Racing), as it's a better deal than all the new individual parts you will likely have to buy anyway plus the time you spent tearing down the engine just to know that most parts are paperweights.

Lastly, apex seals are actually not the biggest weak point on an RX-8. The insufficient oil injection(again, emission standards) didn't help, but a lot of them had more issues with the crappy ignition coils and bad early remanufactured engines, and the side exhaust port design also presented some challenges for the side seals deforming due to high temperature.

[Staves]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

That's true for gas, oil changes, insurance. Lets say it's an extra two grand a year in cost. It's still worth it anyway IMO. If you're scraping just enough money to barely afford to own a v6 Camaro you should be driving a different car then and have different priorities.

Depends on how often you drive. 5-6k yr for me. 1 oil change. Gas and insurance probably cost me an extra $200/yr having the SS vs a V6. Nowhere near a $2k premium.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by CamaroSSStlfan

That's true for gas, oil changes, insurance. Lets say it's an extra two grand a year in cost. It's still worth it anyway IMO. If you're scraping just enough money to barely afford to own a v6 Camaro you should be driving a different car then and have different priorities.

i drive a 2LT.house and cars are all paid for,im retired and not really worried about money at this point.would rather spend the extra money on vacations/cruises than support the V8.but then again with increased traffic and law enforcement my best street racing days are just a memmory.BTW i paid cash for my camaro if i thought i wanted the V8 thats what i would have gotten.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

i drive a 2LT.house and cars are all paid for,im retired and not really worried about money at this point.would rather spend the extra money on vacations/cruises than support the V8.but then again with increased traffic and law enforcement my best street racing days are just a memmory.BTW i paid cash for my camaro if i thought i wanted the V8 thats what i would have gotten.

Central FL? Do you live by Orlando? I can see traffic being an issue. There are always open spots to go WOT though. Ironic there is a short strip of road by my house on the way to my sub division than isn't very busy I can do short 0-60 from a roll when no traffic around. However, it's the main road to the Sheriffs office and airport so gotta be careful there isn't one way down the road passing by lol. Here in Punta Gorda it gets very busy especially in season, but the south part of town there is a lot less traffic because it isn't built up so you can get on it more.


I can imagine if one lived in Sebring, or like Clewiston or Moore Haven, the rural areas you could have a lot of fun with the SS.


What muscle car did you drive when you were young?

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by Staves

Depends on how often you drive. 5-6k yr for me. 1 oil change. Gas and insurance probably cost me an extra $200/yr having the SS vs a V6. Nowhere near a $2k premium.

It's really not a huge difference when you think of it. Unless you're a 22 year old kid then yes insurance on the V8 is a killer.


But on the forums like the Mustang forums and even on this site I'll notice people who wanted to save a few grand by not buying the v8 model and then they end up complaining about not having enough power and end up trading it in on a Mustang GT or SS.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Eh, if you live in a place where you never get to open the engine up for WOT runs for a V8 and never hit the track, a V6 is a fine choice. That said, the V8 growl is addicting and you get extra respect for V8, naturally.

2.0T could be good for the tuner crowd. That's why they made the 2.0T Camaro.

And interior options are nice if you are using your Camaro as a DD, like I am. Wouldn't really want a stripper for DD purposes. As a weekend warrior or a track toy, that's a different story. Actually, it is very time-consuming. You are thinking of a head gasket. You have to rip the engine out and tear it down to reach apex seals. Granted, a rotary engine is a lot simpler in construction than a piston engine, but it's no head gasket job and requires a lot of dedicated tools.

And when apex seals go, it's never just the seals. By the time they fail(whether slowly by wear or more volently by shattering), the housings and plates(and rotors if the failure is the latter, more violent type) are probably done as well. That's why it's usually just a good idea to buy a remanufactured engine(which is about 3 grand from Mazda, or you could buy a more customized one from reputable rebuilders like Pineapple Racing), as it's a better deal than all the new individual parts you will likely have to buy anyway plus the time you spent tearing down the engine just to know that most parts are paperweights.

Lastly, apex seals are actually not the biggest weak point on an RX-8. The insufficient oil injection(again, emission standards) didn't help, but a lot of them had more issues with the crappy ignition coils and bad early remanufactured engines, and the side exhaust port design also presented some challenges for the side seals deforming due to high temperature.

Friend of mine was a big RX7 junky. Helped him fix his kegger on more than one occasion. It’s more a re-ring job than head gaskets.

Like I said, though, LS swap.

[Seniorrs]

Been driving 4 cyls. for ever (vegan).When the dealer said it had a 3.6 6 pot I thought it was the big mill.To many bean sprouts I guess.

[90503]

Originally Posted by STReddy1999

What has the past 10 pages taught me? People really like golf clubs, people can't take more than 10 minutes to adjust to a new driving position so they write off the whole car...

Excellent points!...I've never driven any car for the first time that didn't take some getting used to...Isn't that always the case with something new?

Has anyone shopped a new car and told the salesman, "I don't want to have to get used to anything about this car! Unless it's an absolutely seamless transition from my current car, I won't buy it."

Salesman replies, "Well, just keep your old car, then."

[cellsafemode]

i think the point is why camaro hate within the segment.

not camaro hate by the public in general. Since the general public is decidedly anti 2 door (2 seater) car in general.

Insurance costs etc dont factor in. all pony cars would be in the same boat there.

Gas costs dont factor in, all pony cars are in the same boat there still. (and the camaro is no guzzler for the performance).

The cost isn't really that much of a factor either because the average age of car buyers from any such brand for these kind of cars is in their 50's. Thats' been on an upward trend for a long time, but i dont think it was ever low enough to be buyers in their mid to low 30's or below. and the costs between the brands for this kind of car is very similar.

it's going to be why a charger or mustang or challenger instead of a camaro?
visibility?, additional passenger room?, cargo space? External aesthethics? reliability? public opinion of the car that says something about the driver?

it's unlikely to be performance related because the camaro hasn't lead sales despite it's superior performance.

Nobody has to own these kinds of cars. They want to. So obviously, something is not being delivered in Chevy that is being delivered (at least a little more) in Dodge and Ford.

i dont think it's just a matter of seat and mirror adjustments. Those may be what the general public's reviewers have to say about something, but not the market that actually purchases high performance centric cars. And they may be why the general public continues to move away from such vehicles in general, but that hate would be shared across the other brands too for these kind of cars. Not the camaro specifically.

[90503]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

i think the point is why camaro hate within the segment.

not camaro hate by the public in general. Since the general public is decidedly anti 2 door (2 seater) car in general.

Insurance costs etc dont factor in. all pony cars would be in the same boat there.

Gas costs dont factor in, all pony cars are in the same boat there still. (and the camaro is no guzzler for the performance).

The cost isn't really that much of a factor either because the average age of car buyers from any such brand for these kind of cars is in their 50's. Thats' been on an upward trend for a long time, but i dont think it was ever low enough to be buyers in their mid to low 30's or below. and the costs between the brands for this kind of car is very similar.

it's going to be why a charger or mustang or challenger instead of a camaro?
visibility?, additional passenger room?, cargo space? External aesthethics? reliability? public opinion of the car that says something about the driver?

it's unlikely to be performance related because the camaro hasn't lead sales despite it's superior performance.

Nobody has to own these kinds of cars. They want to. So obviously, something is not being delivered in Chevy that is being delivered (at least a little more) in Dodge and Ford.

i dont think it's just a matter of seat and mirror adjustments. Those may be what the general public's reviewers have to say about something, but not the market that actually purchases high performance centric cars. And they may be why the general public continues to move away from such vehicles in general, but that hate would be shared across the other brands too for these kind of cars. Not the camaro specifically.

All the features listed as being in Dodge and Mustang's favor, as well as being outperformed by Camaro, was the same situation with the 5thGen Camaro compared to the Mustang and Dodge.

The 5thGen Camaro, with all those same "deficiencies" of visibility, trunk, rear passenger seating compared to Dodge and Mustang, still outsold all of them.

The 6th Gen is even a better performance car than the 5th. Blame it on visibility, trunk and rear seats if you want, but those very same things did not keep the 5thGen from outselling Dodge and Mustang.

So what gives? The visibility, etc., is a weak excuse for poor 6th Gen Camaro sales.