Mustang Mach E

[BuddyLee]

It appears that one of the metro=asexuals got a hold of one and intends to morph it into an SUV one day.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski

I don’t entirely agree. They can’t make C8 Corvettes fast enough. Other than the handful of high volume nationwide dealers like Crisswell, Coughlin, Maculkin, etc, most dealers are marking them up a minimum $10k, and as much as $40k on the coasts. AND people are paying it.

The rumored “E-Ray” is supposed to be bonkers fast and it’s not an SUV.

The only evolutional debate on the C8 thus far is the tragic lack of a manual transmission. Though the C7 manual take rate was close to 29%, GM chose to cater to the majority who can’t drive a manual. UnknownJinx and I have seen the “debate” over there and it’s snide and nasty. Some debating that the DCT is a manual trans (Facepalm).

I could care less where Ford goes with the Mustang Mach-E-thingy. I’ve seen it in person, and it’s a blatant Tesla rip off that has nothing to do with the Mustang heritage. Tragically the folks who want a Tesla will not lower themselves to a Ford. What concerns me is GM seeing this and believing “This is the way”.

Clearly after the release of their elephant jumping off a cliff logo, they believe it.

Tadge said at launch manual penetration was 15% and they couldn’t get a partner at that volume to make one.

Overall I am continually surprised how much passionate stock some people apply to a name. A lot of people were bonkers that that GM used Blazer on a non off-road oriented FWD cross over.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It's really not a full-on SUV.

I've always thought that names based on the Fusion or even the Taurus would have been more appropriate. Even Mach E (by itself) would have been "less unacceptable".


Norm

Agree
They had lots of choices. GalaxE? Lol

[redcoats1976]

i could see an electric camaro that looks like the current model.even a station wagon version of said electric camaro,there were pics of a camaro wagon that looked pretty good and would expand the camaros appeal as a family driver.but god save us from an SUV camaro...hell,i might even look at an ICE powered camaro wagon if it were styled well.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Sure, calling the Mach E a Mustang has pissed off a lot of Mustang owners. Let me explain why Ford doesn’t or shouldn’t care. Who is the target market for Mach E? It is NOT current Mustang owners. It is not future Mustang coupe owners. It’s people who would love to own a Mustang but can’t because of kids and/or not having discretionary income to spend on an extra vehicle.

That's most likely Ford's reasoning, or at least that's what it became once Farley got top management on board with it. But I'm afraid that this much reads like it came straight out of an MBA textbook, where product is totally subordinate to the business plan.

The Mach E may very well be a truly nice vehicle for some. If that's the case, it won't be the Mustang name that makes it.

If, on the other hand, it doesn't do as well as anticipated, the Mustang name won't be enough to save it. All it'll do is hurt the one remaining non-truck/SUV/CUV in Ford's North American lineup.

I've asked before, what's likely to happen to the Mustang as a fun ponycar if general perception of what a Mustang is gradually shifts to a wanna-be SUV?

So, if you can be a vehicle that handles all your gotta do stuff and has a fairly sporty appearance, why not? Worked for Cayenne and Macan. Even for Jaguars utilities.

The Mach E has a "fairly sporty appearance"? Not to anybody who grew up when family "cars" were sedans rather than trucks, vans/minivans, or SUVs. That's a whole 'nother distortion in the market generally. Cars aren't trucks, etc.

Remember back in the good ole days when damn near every Oldsmobile model had Cutlass in the name? Cutlass Supreme, Cutlass Classic, Cutlass Calais, Cutlass Ciera, etc.

Maybe irrelevant to this discussion, maybe not, but where's Oldsmobile today?


Norm

[BuddyLee]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

i could see an electric camaro that looks like the current model.even a station wagon version of said electric camaro,there were pics of a camaro wagon that looked pretty good and would expand the camaros appeal as a family driver.but god save us from an SUV camaro...hell,i might even look at an ICE powered camaro wagon if it were styled well.

Who would have thought back in the day that Porche would have been able to pull off an SUV? Ford screwed with nature and should have left well enough alone. Someone is going to want an SUV Mustang as well as an SUV Camaro. City Slickers and misguided Millennial will suck them up.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Naw, this was too easy. What are people buying today? (People, not enthusiasts and auto mag writers). Sport utilities and crossovers. You go where the high volume market is standing in line waving money. Sport utilities and crossovers.

That's a poor excuse for trying to steal the Mustang's long-running heritage.

Would you be ready for the Corvette to suddenly become a "brand" with a similar EV SUV-ish stablemate? Really?

As far as ground clearance, that is not a defining feature for SUVs. There is much debate within the industry over what are the differences between SUV and CUV. If it can confidently go off road, it’s an SUV. But most SUVs, capable or not, never go off road, just like most track cars never make it to the track. How many Explorers and Tahoe’s actually go off-road? But both are classified as SUV. Think of Mach E as a smaller, sportier electric version of Explorer.

Then Explorer is really where this Mach E should have taken its brand name from.

I'd define an SUV more in terms of overall height, formal chair-like seating, and eyepoint height above the ground. Ground clearance typically follows, but doesn't have to, particularly with a batteries-in-a-skateboard basic vehicle architecture

Which, by the way, sells a helluva lot more than Mustang.

If anything, that's more reason to have left the Mustang name alone.


Norm

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by ste1n

Thing is why would anybody choose this over Tesla Model Y?

Premium trim with awd and extended battery 270 miles range and 0-60 4.8 sec costs $54,700.

Tesla Model Y Long range 326 miles range 0-60 4.8 sec costs $49,990.

For $54,990 you can buy a Model 3 performance. 315 miles range 0-60 3.1 sec. This one is even a better bargain.

For me it would be a Mach E GT ($61k -$7,500) vs a Model Y Long Range ($50k)

For the $4,000 difference, the Mach E is a better looking vehicle that I expect would be better assembled. And have a sub-3s 0-60.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski

I don’t entirely agree. They can’t make C8 Corvettes fast enough. Other than the handful of high volume nationwide dealers like Crisswell, Coughlin, Maculkin, etc, most dealers are marking them up a minimum $10k, and as much as $40k on the coasts. AND people are paying it.

The rumored “E-Ray” is supposed to be bonkers fast and it’s not an SUV.

The only evolutional debate on the C8 thus far is the tragic lack of a manual transmission. Though the C7 manual take rate was close to 29%, GM chose to cater to the majority who can’t drive a manual. UnknownJinx and I have seen the “debate” over there and it’s snide and nasty. Some debating that the DCT is a manual trans (Facepalm).

I could care less where Ford goes with the Mustang Mach-E-thingy. I’ve seen it in person, and it’s a blatant Tesla rip off that has nothing to do with the Mustang heritage. Tragically the folks who want a Tesla will not lower themselves to a Ford. What concerns me is GM seeing this and believing “This is the way”.

Clearly after the release of their elephant jumping off a cliff logo, they believe it.

GM can crank out about 60,000 Corvettes a year. GM can crank out about 300,000 Equinox / Terrain a year. True they make more money on each Corvette, but they make money on Equinox / Terrain, so the total per brand falls in favor of Equinox / Terrain.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

...

Would you be ready for the Corvette to suddenly become a "brand" with a similar EV SUV-ish stablemate? Really?



.....

Norm

Whether I’m ready for it or not, it’s closer to happening than not happening.

[Big Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Tadge said at launch manual penetration was 15% and they couldn’t get a partner at that volume to make one.

Overall I am continually surprised how much passionate stock some people apply to a name. A lot of people were bonkers that that GM used Blazer on a non off-road oriented FWD cross over.

And Tadge is completely full of sh*t. This has been discussed ad nauseam and debunked on the C8 section of the Corvette forum. Then it was footwell room for a clutch...debunked. Then it was tunnel rigidity...debunked. He had his marching orders, and he cherry-picked data to support the narrative. The take rate was as high as 40% on the C7 Z06 and averaged 29% across all C7 models from 2014 ro 2019. Almost 1/3rd of C7 buyers opted for 3 pedals. The oft quoted 15% take rate was on the 2019 base Stingray (since they are only selling a comparable C8 Stingray currently) and most of those were dealer orders in the final year of production. Guess what the high volume dealers did once the C8 was announced with an automatic DCT trans only? They loaded up on manual C7’s and they sold like hot cakes.

[Wyzz Kydd]

It's coming.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski

And Tadge is completely full of sh*t. This has been discussed ad nauseam and debunked on the C8 section of the Corvette forum. Then it was footwell room for a clutch...debunked. Then it was tunnel rigidity...debunked. He had his marching orders, and he cherry-picked data to support the narrative. The take rate was as high as 40% on the C7 Z06 and averaged 29% across all C7 models from 2014 ro 2019. Almost 1/3rd of C7 buyers opted for 3 pedals. The oft quoted 15% take rate was on the 2019 base Stingray (since they are only selling a comparable C8 Stingray currently) and most of those were dealer orders in the final year of production. Guess what the high volume dealers did once the C8 was announced with an automatic DCT trans only? They loaded up on manual C7’s and they sold like hot cakes.

So you are saying the Chief Engineer for Corvette is full of???? LOL that is hilarious.

Of course it would be higher on the low volume Z06 but even 40% on the very focused model is only a bit above your 29%. And if you take the 40% Z06 penetration and your 29 starts to look like Tadge’s number.

And nobody should ever judge a future business volume on a short term bump for the last model with a manual. Maybe define “”Hot cakes” too.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Whether I’m ready for it or not, it’s closer to happening than not happening.

Ready or not, would that really be a good thing?

Like, naming aside, why can't there be enough room left in the model lineup for vehicles that aren't SUVs/CUVs or trucks?


Norm