Perceptions Die... OK Say Again Y Foreign is Better

[SleepWarz]

Or the sunfire, lol.

True, but just rebranding another car is just as bad.

Term nazi, I bet you would freak out over a miss use of 'your'.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

Or the sunfire, lol.

True, but just rebranding another car is just as bad.

Term nazi, I bet you would freak out over a miss use of 'your'.

Naaah.. Truth be told I could care less.. I was just being a bastard for spit 'n giggles.

As for Re-Branding a car from one market to another... 5K+ miles away... I simply see no big deal. The majority of the public in the U.S. market has never even heard of Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, or Wuling.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by syr74

Not quite at this point, particulars will be released by Ford at the LA auto show in December, so we're getting close.



Thus far all we know about exterior dimensions is that the 5.0L Coyote is both longer and lower than any 4.6L V8 produced thus far SOHC or DOHC, it will also be a bit narrower than the 4.6L DOHC was/is primarily because it doesn't use roller finger followers like the mod motor does. The exact measure of those differences is still unknown.

All that said, I've actually given consideration to a LS powered E36 BMW like the one you provided a picture to myself of late. High mileage M3's of that era are rather inexpensive these days, and LS V8's can be had for cheap. Still, I've swapped a motor or two in my time and am uncertain whether I really want to subject myself to that kind of punishment again. Funny, they always start out fun..........

My bad... I thought U were referring to the upcoming GenV GM 5+L engines. Specifically the one in these:

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

I LOVED PONTIAC.. we all kno that.. But Pontiac was a brand with dwindling prospects...

Let me explain that one...

BASED on the current climate.. or at least the climate of the last 5 years... Pontiac's "EXCITEMENT" credentials haven't lived up to that title anymore than Chevy... The G6 can be a performance type car.. but no more so than the Malibu.. and the G8 was certainly MAGNIFICENT... It was simply TOO NICE.. to not be a Buick or Cadillac... in fact the price almost demands it... since Pontiac's core buyers are to young to afford the car and while it certainly has BMW beat in performance... it fails to have one thing the 5series already has... the LUXO.. which it could get as a Buick and Caddy (in longer Wheel Base)

Almost 40% of Pontiac's sales were Fleet... and even tho I have no problem with Fleet sales.. for the sake of sales.. it's not as PROFITABLE as GM needs it to be.. and I certainly can see Pontiac buyers moving to Chevy...

Pontiac "EXCITEMENT" appeals to young guys... who nowadays seem more smitten with Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Mitsu, Subie, and Nissan for performance.

BUICK actually shows GROWTH... even with only 3 models... The Enclave is proof-positive that Buick can still draw a crowd... and it is not, as was previously thought, pigeon-holed to one (old) demographic.. as the Enclave sales numbers and buyers have been both plentiful and decidedly YOUNGER despite the economic downturn..

Cars like BUICK are necessary.. they offer a more clear-cut solution to harsh times or even inability to afford a top tier vehicle like a Caddy or Benz... THEY ARE PROFIT CENTERS, especially if SUV/TRUCK sales were to fall... NEAR LUX would pick up the pace

[MCPOAJ]

the camaro may not be chevy's savior but damn do they sell there in the first week the camaro showed up on lots there were more of them then lnf/lsj ss balts in town

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by MCPOAJ

the camaro may not be chevy's savior but damn do they sell there in the first week the camaro showed up on lots there were more of them then lnf/lsj ss balts in town

[MCPOAJ]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

well someone said that the camaro didn't "save" chevy but you have to admit they sold well

[Zhawk]

Originally Posted by streetjudge79

Buicks are for old people. They should have kept Pontiac and re introduced the Trans am/Firebird series just as Chevy did the camaro. That would have saved Pontiac.

I always 'love' the Buicks are for old people. We have 2. A 72 Skylark COnvertible and a 98 Regal GS. I love both. The Regal delivers the exact same things as the Grand Prix GTP but in a nicer package (at least to me). Both of my kids prefer it to the GPs and my 11 year old daughter has it on her list of cars she wants (next to GTO, Corvette, and Camaro).

Pontiac would have needed a complete change of line-up to have a successful brand. The only way to use any of their current line up (in my opinion) would be to base it all off the G8. Let them have sedan, coupe, wagon, and El Camino type. Put strong engines in all of hem and stick tightly to high performance. No, econoboxes, no SUVs. Let Chevy and GMC carry that load. The problem is that Chevy can carry any performance idea that Pontiac could. The SS lineup is a much cheaper way to deliver performance.

Let's face the grim reality. GM needed to simplify things and going down to 4 US brands meant cutting a longstanding line. Buick makes more sense.

[DGthe3]

The Firebird would take away from Camaro sales and would either be a poor re-badge or an expensive waste due to the small volume. How many people would only buy a Firebird vs Camaro? The Camaro is already bracketed, or at least it was, by the Corvette and the G8 in terms of performance and usability. Why toss something else in there?

And with new cars like the G3 Pontiac was destined to failure. The car is a joke, and has no reason to exist. Meanwhile, Buick is unveiling cars like the LaCrosse which is lowering the average buyer age, going toe to toe with Lexus and winning, and above all attracting more attention to the brand.

But lets say Pontiac was spared. It couldn't return to being a performance brand anyways. Fuel economy regulations and rising gas prices would prevent it. So we'd get stuck with more cars like the G3 and G5 rather than GTO or Firebird.

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

The term goes "Case in point" and the GTO was a Commodore no different than the G8 was a Commodore. Your CASE IN POINT would have been better made with the Grand Prix.

Please, take it easy on the bold. Overuse takes away from trying to emphasize things. ITS NOT AS BAD AS TYPING WITH CAPS LOCK ON BUT ITS STILL NOT NEEDED.

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Please, take it easy on the bold. Overuse takes away from trying to emphasize things. ITS NOT AS BAD AS TYPING WITH CAPS LOCK ON BUT ITS STILL NOT NEEDED.

With all due respect, I have never seen him type without bold...just like Windy City always types in a different red font.

[HeatherR]

I have always driven manual cars. Had BMWs (Dad's business) until I married a GM guy. Since then I have had a G6 coupe (one of the 1% manuals prior to cancellation of manual), a Saab and a Solstice. My Saab is to be replaced and I am having a hard time making a decision...I am tempted to replace it with another Saab as it still technically qualifies as a GM product, however, I am afraid of resale. That leaves me with going up to a CTS or getting a Camaro as a daily driver (2 door not preferred for DD). I don't blame GM for not making more cars available with manual-most people don't want them. I am 2 months away from turning in the Saab and I change my mind every day!

To answer your question...If I were to switch from the Saab to the most comparable product available (and I was not hung up on having a manual) I would go to a Chevy Malibu LTZ...Very nice car and other than xenon headlights offers everything my Saab did and a few upgrades.

[Number 3]

The problem is that Saturn buyers were unique. They were something like 85% NOT likely to consider GM. So you have pretty much lost 85% of Saturn to somewhere else.

Pontiac in it's hey days was fine. But in a more and more crowded market, Pontiac only held Chevrolet down. The Malibu couldn't be quite as sporty because you had to have room for the G6. And Pontiac dealers demanded G3s and got them, G5s and got them. All those two products did was give a buyer the chance to go to a Chevy dealer and say heyyyyy, I can get a sporty G3 for $xx,xxx how much for the Aveo.

Pontiac had a romantic past and that's it. It had no business potential. Buick did. It's that simple.

Now, Chevys can be sporty and even Buicks, without overcrowding the GM Brand landscape.

I understand the love for Pontiac. But Pontiac had the G6 selling well and that is it. The G8 was sadly a great car that didn't sell at all. A rebadged Equinox a rebadged Aveo and a rebadged Cobalt. The sadness is nostalgic, not real.

GM will work hard to retain those customers. And I hope the success rate is very high.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by HeatherR

I have always driven manual cars. Had BMWs (Dad's business) until I married a GM guy. Since then I have had a G6 coupe (one of the 1% manuals prior to cancellation of manual), a Saab and a Solstice. My Saab is to be replaced and I am having a hard time making a decision...I am tempted to replace it with another Saab as it still technically qualifies as a GM product, however, I am afraid of resale. That leaves me with going up to a CTS or getting a Camaro as a daily driver (2 door not preferred for DD). I don't blame GM for not making more cars available with manual-most people don't want them. I am 2 months away from turning in the Saab and I change my mind every day!

To answer your question...If I were to switch from the Saab to the most comparable product available (and I was not hung up on having a manual) I would go to a Chevy Malibu LTZ...Very nice car and other than xenon headlights offers everything my Saab did and a few upgrades.

Something tells me that when the Regal comes out the Saab issue will be moot... as the Chevy Malibu and Equinox better both of Saturn's best sellers (Vue and Aura) hands down. THe only missing mark in Saturn's line up that I will truly miss is the Sky... or as I usually call it.. the "Baby Corvette"

I cannot see why GM doesn't introduce the Riviera in Coupe and Convertible to replace that hole in the line-up. Fact is that a if Buick is truly going to compete with Lexus they will need a RWD or preferably... AWD entry level coupe to head off teh IS250/350

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The problem is that Saturn buyers were unique. They were something like 85% NOT likely to consider GM. So you have pretty much lost 85% of Saturn to somewhere else.

Pontiac in it's hey days was fine. But in a more and more crowded market, Pontiac only held Chevrolet down. The Malibu couldn't be quite as sporty because you had to have room for the G6. And Pontiac dealers demanded G3s and got them, G5s and got them. All those two products did was give a buyer the chance to go to a Chevy dealer and say heyyyyy, I can get a sporty G3 for $xx,xxx how much for the Aveo.

Pontiac had a romantic past and that's it. It had no business potential. Buick did. It's that simple.

Now, Chevys can be sporty and even Buicks, without overcrowding the GM Brand landscape.

I understand the love for Pontiac. But Pontiac had the G6 selling well and that is it. The G8 was sadly a great car that didn't sell at all. A rebadged Equinox a rebadged Aveo and a rebadged Cobalt. The sadness is nostalgic, not real.

GM will work hard to retain those customers. And I hope the success rate is very high.

as I said in another thread... I LOVED PONTIAC.. we all kno that.. But Pontiac was a brand with dwindling prospects...

Let me explain that one...

BASED on the current climate.. or at least the climate of the last 5 years... Pontiac's "EXCITEMENT" credentials haven't lived up to that title anymore than Chevy... The G6 can be a performance type car.. but no more so than the Malibu.. and the G8 was certainly MAGNIFICENT... It was simply TOO NICE.. to not be a Buick or Cadillac... in fact the price almost demands it... since Pontiac's core buyers are to young to afford the car and while it certainly has BMW beat in performance... it fails to have one thing the 5series already has... the LUXO.. which it could get as a Buick and Caddy (in longer Wheel Base)

Almost 40% of Pontiac's sales were Fleet... and even tho I have no problem with Fleet sales.. for the sake of sales.. it's not as PROFITABLE as GM needs it to be.. and I certainly can see Pontiac buyers moving to Chevy...

Pontiac "EXCITEMENT" appeals to young guys... who nowadays seem more smitten with Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Mitsu, Subie, and Nissan for performance.

BUICK actually shows GROWTH... even with only 3 models... The Enclave is proof-positive that Buick can still draw a crowd... and it is not, as was previously thought, pigeon-holed to one (old) demographic.. as the Enclave sales numbers and buyers have been both plentiful and decidedly YOUNGER despite the economic downturn..

Cars like BUICK are necessary.. they offer a more clear-cut solution to harsh times or even inability to afford a top tier vehicle like a Caddy or Benz... THEY ARE PROFIT CENTERS, especially if SUV/TRUCK sales were to fall... NEAR LUX would pick up the pace