Perceptions Die... OK Say Again Y Foreign is Better

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

Stupid internet was down. Can you believe there are only 2 satelittes over Iraq to pull a signal from. I can't wait to get back home.


Anyways, whether Ford is on a roll from perception or true hard numbers (I choose the latter) it is quite apparent they are doing something right. Differences in MPG's has nothing to do with that statement. Toyota and however you feel about them has nothing to do with that statement, but Ford and GM are snagging some customers from them. The increase in market share alone supports my statement.

So talk about Toyota and MPG's and whatever else you feel appropriate, but to say "Ford is not on a roll is simply not true."

Give it a rest... or better yet... get rid of that German car and put your money where your mouth is and buy a car from the country U are fighting for (if U are in Iraq for the same reason I was back in 1990-91). Buy an XLR or CTC when it come out this spring. :flag2:

YES... I'm telling U where to spend YOUR money.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

LETTER TO THE EDITOR Buick is profitable; Pontiac was not

SUSAN DOCHERTY, Vice President, U.S. Sales, General Motors Co., Detroit
October 26, 2009 - 12:01 am ET
To the Editor:

Regarding Robert E. Cherney's Oct. 19 letter, "Why kill Pontiac? Why keep Buick?": I'd like to assure your readers that phasing out Pontiac was one of the most difficult decisions of my career but also one of the most necessary.

Pontiac had been unprofitable for several years. A team, many of whom were passionate about the brand, tried in vain to save Pontiac and make it profitable -- but none of the scenarios proved viable.

We kept Buick in the General Motors family because it is highly profitable and will grow with new models for the next few years, giving Buick an offering in several sedan and crossover segments.

The Enclave is already a market success, with 50 percent of the buyers brand new to Buick. The 2010 LaCrosse is performing well, attracting younger buyers and those who are trading in imports like Lexus and Acura. And the 2011 Regal, a mid-sized sport sedan, arrives in U.S. dealerships in the spring. The Regal is already a hot seller in China and is based on the highly successful Opel Insignia, the 2009 European Car of the Year. A little further down the road, there will be a compact sedan and a small crossover joining the family.

We feel confident that we chose to save the right brand and that Buick has a bright future ahead of it.


AUTOMOTIVE NEWS Subscript Required.

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Give it a rest... or better yet... get rid of that German car and put your money where your mouth is and buy a car from the country U are fighting for (if U are in Iraq for the same reason I was back in 1990-91). Buy an XLR or CTC when it come out this spring. :flag2:

YES... I'm telling U where to spend YOUR money.

LMAO.........

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Bottom line... Detroit should be focusing on higher profit cars, meaning Luxo and Near Lux to offset any loss associated with the drop in Truck/SUV sales... even if the drop settles down to just 10-15% in the coming months/years. GM for instance should be ballz to the wallz promoting Cadillac sales and the 3series fighter is KEY. The S-class fighter is also a necessity and should be prioritized as well. Buick should be pushed up, as well as moving GMC products over Chevy ones. The Pontiacs should be promoted as performance alternatives, RWD/AWD/FWD??? Who cares... as long as they PERFORM. Saturn should be Hybrid Tech along with Saab on the higher end...

Bread and butter should be Chevy... and they should be the ONLY Bread and Butter outside of Cadillac, but on the opposite end... but EVEN THERE... they should be emphasis on upselling... Sell a LTZ instead of an LS... Buy a Dual-Mode.. instead of a Conventional. Buy OUR 20 INCH Wheels over the Aftermarket's 20 inch wheels... PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT...

What that means... is of the 3.87 million Vehicles GM sold in 2007... 2,265,641, were Chevys... only 214,726 were Cadillacs, 505,746 GMCs, 358,022 Pontiacs, 240,091 Saturns, 185,791 were Buicks... the Saab and Hummer made up the balance. ( I use 2007 as it was the last NORMAL year for sales)

What I would like to see??? Cadillac selling 300K... but nothing under $31K even with the BLS. Each model should have 4 tier level options packages... and sales people should be trained to offer these options like the Catholic church once promoted Christianity. Chevy and Cadillac Stores as one.

I'd like to see a Buick/GMC store that has a full line of Buicks, and a Full line of GMC including... after the sale of Hummer... a "HUMMER-like" line that tackles the EXACT same position that hummer occupied. They would be a $10K Premium over their regular GMC Sisters.

Buicks should be priced from $25K to $50K. 4 cars... a Small 4Cylinder with at least 200HP Base-270HP V6 (Astra on Delta think VERY Upscale Cruze for the sedan and Euro Astra for a hatch), a Solstice-like Convertible hardtop, a Mid-size Regal sedan and Riviera Coupe on same platform... with a base 210HP 4Cylin- 315HP V6, a Large Lacrosse, a small CUV, which still should have been the excellent Vue but with Enclavish sheet metal... and the Enclave

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

LMAO.........

[streetjudge79]

Buicks are for old people. They should have kept Pontiac and re introduced the Trans am/Firebird series just as Chevy did the camaro. That would have saved Pontiac.

[Zabo]

Originally Posted by streetjudge79

Buicks are for old people. They should have kept Pontiac and re introduced the Trans am/Firebird series just as Chevy did the camaro. That would have saved Pontiac.

And you're so sure of this how?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by streetjudge79

Buicks are for old people. They should have kept Pontiac and re introduced the Trans am/Firebird series just as Chevy did the camaro. That would have saved Pontiac.

No, it definitely would not have.

[MikesZ]

I think you meant Pontiac, not "Potiac" in your title. Either way, the brand is dead.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by streetjudge79

Buicks are for old people. They should have kept Pontiac and re introduced the Trans am/Firebird series just as Chevy did the camaro. That would have saved Pontiac.

My stomach is hurting just thinking that some one believes that the Camaro is anyway the savior of Chevy. Furthermore the Firebird was always a supplemental car to the Camaro.

Pontiac is DEAD.. because it was Fleet Heavy... offered no real price difference over Chevy despite more investment (than GMC) in changing styling for both exterior and interior.. not to mention marketing.. and it was a NA only marketed brand.

If Holden were Pontiac as well.. or Pontiac was Holden.. then that point could be argued.. but when one looks at the new landscape in the Auto Business.. particularuly at GM.. Chev is now truly Global.. Buick is now Global (and should be introduced in Europe with a Split name with Opel for 10 years then a phasing out of Opel altogether (eg. Opel-Buick, Vaux-Buick) with Buick possibly as the upper end Opels in Europe. The Chevy Brand essentially would handle the entry level in Europe, but be substituted in other markets such as S. America where Opel's customer loyalty is not tied to it being the home maker (eg Germany).

People have to get past this BS though that Pontiac was anything other than a rebadge of a Chevy and one Toyota.. Before the G8.. Pontiac had absolutely nothing in it's line-up that made unique of more performance oriented over other brands at GMNA. The GTO hardly counts as it's sales barely made a difference at all, and it was even more unprofitable than the G8. Teh Solstice was shared with Saturn. The rest of Pontiac was a previous model Mazda6/Accord fighter without even a TRUE GXP model due to seemingly limitations to the Epsilon I's platform in the face of additional power over 252HP, a Toyota Corolla rebadge, a Cobalt coupe-only rebadge with none of the performance of the SS which always seemed ass backwards, and a rebadged Equinox.:(

Where is the Euphoria coming from???

It's worst in fact than people saying since GM doesn't have a dedicated performance brand for the common man... they will start buying Ford.. which has no more performance, and actually less than Chevy in which it almost completely emulates

[Michael_Js]

Originally Posted by streetjudge79

Buicks are for old people. They should have kept Pontiac and re introduced the Trans am/Firebird series just as Chevy did the camaro. That would have saved Pontiac.

I think the "Buicks are for old people" is a feeling thought by a lot of people. I haven't ever owned a Buick and the last one in my family was a 1969 Buick Electra 225. That car was amazing! Anyway, I kind of feel that same way since I haven't paid attention to Buick. However, seeing what they are now producing, I would disagree with my own perception...

[SleepWarz]

GM was just too lazy to put the effort into pontiac. Which could have been saved if they didnt try to keep up with the bubble car style.

Case and point, GTO.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by SleepWarz

GM was just too lazy to put the effort into pontiac. Which could have been saved if they didnt try to keep up with the bubble car style.

Case and point, GTO.

The term goes "Case in point" and the GTO was a Commodore no different than the G8 was a Commodore. Your CASE IN POINT would have been better made with the Grand Prix.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Don't we all ... as it is, there is a good deal of speculation and assumptions (much of it may be correct) but solid facts a little rare at the moment. Sorta like 2010 Camaro info a year and a half ago.

Not quite at this point, particulars will be released by Ford at the LA auto show in December, so we're getting close.

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

I Need more info on the upcoming 5.0L

Thus far all we know about exterior dimensions is that the 5.0L Coyote is both longer and lower than any 4.6L V8 produced thus far SOHC or DOHC, it will also be a bit narrower than the 4.6L DOHC was/is primarily because it doesn't use roller finger followers like the mod motor does. The exact measure of those differences is still unknown.

All that said, I've actually given consideration to a LS powered E36 BMW like the one you provided a picture to myself of late. High mileage M3's of that era are rather inexpensive these days, and LS V8's can be had for cheap. Still, I've swapped a motor or two in my time and am uncertain whether I really want to subject myself to that kind of punishment again. Funny, they always start out fun..........