Perceptions Die... OK Say Again Y Foreign is Better

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

OOOOOOH!!! My reason for posting the CTS-V thread in the first place was to give a peak into what the LSA may offer in the Camaro Z28.



I believe the Camaro will only benefit further with the LSA engine in it. ALtho I am a firm believer that GM would be a fool to give the Z28 the 556HP version, without either boosting the CTS-V up to 600. Cadillac guys will be pissed. Second off I think that if Chevy does give it an LSA.. the Z06 should get the same set-up. The Vette would be OK with this as it is over 700lbs lighter. I mean seriously... if the GT500 is the Z28's intended target, the GT500, weighs the same thing as the Camaro SS. But it still doesn't have IRS, despite it having 115HP more and it still doesn't perform that much better than the SS... and it still costs damn near $50K compared to the SS's $34K.

I'm sorry but this is one for the books... I seriously am awestruck that a 426HP $34K Camaro, weighing only 15 lbs less... ran with a $50K 540HP Mustang (that's 114HP more)

Camaro Mustang
0-30 mph 1.9 sec 2.0 sec
0-40 2.6 2.7
0-50 3.5 3.7
0-60 4.5 4.6
0-70 5.7 5.5
0-80 7.2 6.8
0-90 8.7 8.2
0-100 10.5 9.7
Quarter mile 12.9 sec @ 110.7 mph 12.8 sec @ 115.3 mph MT COMPARISON

YES the Mustang beat the Camaro... by 1/10th of a sec and 4 MPH. That is pathetic, and basically says that if the Camaro even remotely got the LSA (560HP without the "Quiet Tuned" exhaust from Cadillac restricting it) it would MURDER the GT500. Fact is that a Camaro with just the Base Corvette's 436HP LS3 would at least equal the GT500, altho I'm betting it would whip it.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by rayhawk

What does that mean, How they handled bankruptcy? Do you mean taking public funds? I could understand that, but it is not as if the Europeans don't subsidize every industry they have, so tell him at least his money is going to the home team. Actually, the Europeans are even subsidized by US tax dollars in many states, so depending on where you live, he may be contributing to them with his taxes anyway.

Exactamundo... People seem to forget this. I think it would have been better if GM had of gotten the money by way of some massive Government contract instead if being honest and letting the Gov buy into the company. People LOOOOVE to be lied to.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

It's a roll because they are steadily improving every month. It's a roll because they are gaining market share. It's a roll because of the sales successes of several of their models. It's a roll because they have actually had a quarter with profits in this bad economy.

No offense Bud.. but Ford reported those earning with so much SLANT... the word SLANT tried to sue them form stealing it's mojo

Ford avoided bankruptcy and government loans, mainly by borrowing or setting up credit lines totaling $23.5 billion in 2006 and 2007, then selling it's Luxo division off. BECAUSE IT HAD TO... It just so happened that it ended up being the right thing to have done.

The ironic thing is that GM is improving each month.. despite all the negative spin. GM is gaining retail market share, with less divisions, skimpy inventory, less dealerships... all because of great products. GM has had success with every model they have introduced over the last year. The SRX and Equinox are selling in numbers that would make their original versions envious... The SRX ironically is selling despite it being FWD/AWD and not RWD/AWD as so many "NON-BUYING Enthusiasts" thought it should be. The Camaro is selling... the 2 year old Malibu is still selling literally on par with the redone Fusion... the Lacrosse and Enclave are putting Buick back in contention. Come on.. give the General some props

[Mr. Wyndham]

Thanks for posting!!
Anything in terms of power-delivery/handling that sticks out above all to you on the car?

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

As for your misunderstanding of the LS3 not showing up in the CTS to compete with the 550i... I am right there with U.

I believe their reasoning was that not many people were buying the V8 versions of the past, so they put the DI 3.6L in there, instead. It turned out to be a good call, because sales went up overall (no doubt due to many reasons...but still). I remember reading that somewhere...wish I could find the link.

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

OOOOOOH!!! My reason for posting the CTS-V thread in the first place was to give a peak into what the LSA may offer in the Camaro Z28.

I believe the Camaro will only benefit further with the LSA engine in it. ALtho I am a firm believer that GM would be a fool to give the Z28 the 556HP version, without either boosting the CTS-V up to 600. Cadillac guys will be pissed. Second off I think that if Chevy does give it an LSA.. the Z06 should get the same set-up. The Vette would be OK with this as it is over 700lbs lighter. I mean seriously... if the GT500 is the Z28's intended target, the GT500, weighs the same thing as the Camaro SS. But it still doesn't have IRS, despite it having 115HP more and it still doesn't perform that much better than the SS... and it still costs damn near $50K compared to the SS's $34K.

I'm sorry but this is one for the books... I seriously am awestruck that a 426HP $34K Camaro, weighing only 15 lbs less... ran with a $50K 540HP Mustang (that's 114HP more)

Camaro Mustang
0-30 mph 1.9 sec 2.0 sec
0-40 2.6 2.7
0-50 3.5 3.7
0-60 4.5 4.6
0-70 5.7 5.5
0-80 7.2 6.8
0-90 8.7 8.2
0-100 10.5 9.7
Quarter mile 12.9 sec @ 110.7 mph 12.8 sec @ 115.3 mph MT COMPARISON

YES the Mustang beat the Camaro... by 1/10th of a sec and 4 MPH. That is pathetic, and basically says that if the Camaro even remotely got the LSA (560HP without the "Quiet Tuned" exhaust from Cadillac restricting it) it would MURDER the GT500. Fact is that a Camaro with just the Base Corvette's 436HP LS3 would at least equal the GT500, altho I'm betting it would whip it.

There are other comparisons showing the GT500 with a substantial lead on the Camaro SS (by as much as 5/10ths). It really boils down to the fact that the Ford is nearly-impossible to launch off the line, and around a road course - it can be skittish. With practice, I've no doubt you could seriously hurt a Camaro SS with it. BUT -- you are right, when consisitency is key; that particular run is documented.

I also suspect that the LSA won't stay identical to what we know it as now. I think "if" it gets used in the Camaro in the future, it will feature either more, or less hp...but it's gonna be different. I'm not sure why the Caddy folks would complain...the Corvette guys seem allright with the Camaro sharing its LS3.

[SS 376]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

I'm sorry but this is one for the books... I seriously am awestruck that a 426HP $34K Camaro, weighing only 15 lbs less... ran with a $50K 540HP Mustang (that's 114HP more)

Camaro Mustang
0-30 mph 1.9 sec 2.0 sec
0-40 2.6 2.7
0-50 3.5 3.7
0-60 4.5 4.6
0-70 5.7 5.5
0-80 7.2 6.8
0-90 8.7 8.2
0-100 10.5 9.7
Quarter mile 12.9 sec @ 110.7 mph 12.8 sec @ 115.3 mph MT COMPARISON

YES the Mustang beat the Camaro... by 1/10th of a sec and 4 MPH. That is pathetic, and basically says that if the Camaro even remotely got the LSA (560HP without the "Quiet Tuned" exhaust from Cadillac restricting it) it would MURDER the GT500. Fact is that a Camaro with just the Base Corvette's 436HP LS3 would at least equal the GT500, altho I'm betting it would whip it.

If the Z/28 employing an LSA does indeed get produced, I don't think an 11.9 quarter mile is out of the question...

[LSXgirl]

Meh I think the ring is a good way to show what a car is capable of.

[FrankT]

I have one of these, also. Bought an automatic this time. Thunder Gray Chromaflair paint. Absolutely the nicest car I have ever owned. Took it to Lingenfelter in Indiana for their 630HP package. I am thrilled with the car, and the performance.

[BATMANs]

I have a NSX and a GTO.

Sold my RX7 TT (FD)

Interesting mix of power plants.

IMHO, the LSx powerplant is the BEST one in the world when u factor all of these"

-MPG
- Flat power curve
- High N/A HP/TQ
- U can get alot more power that is smog legal by California standards (or beyond)

There's probably a few more that I forgot, but this short list is suffice.

While I like the NSX fit and finish as well as exotic look and feel, I must admit that I got hooked with the notion of a flat power-band since the RX7 (turbos kicking in at 2k RPMs) and the GTO.

I'm planning on selling the NSX next year and replacing it with a Yellow C6 Z06.

I will give the Acura NSX credit in 2 areas:

- Reliability is second to none. Nothing has broken down. Period.
- Resell value on these are probably the strongest (along with the MKIV) for any mass produced sports cars. RX7 is strong too if you take care of it. I sold my FD for $15k with 250k+ miles on it.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Thanks for posting!!
Anything in terms of power-delivery/handling that sticks out above all to you on the car?

Power delivery is seamless. I will confess I normally ride around all day in "SPORT MODE" not shifting but letting it just sit in drive. The Tranny hooks up 10 times better and holds the gears a lot longer and with better results. I have gone up against an M5, M6, Z06, Vette like mine, M3, RS4, IS-F, Viper and E63AMG... and have only been bested by the Z06 and the Viper. Truth is my Vette will probably equal this Cadillac. Withteh mods I've done to my Vette I have taken out Z06s, albeit without their cars having Mods. I would not be able to beat my V if my Vette was stock... No way.

One problem I have with the CTS-V is that it's "sneaky." By that I mean it's not loud.. altho if U want it to be U can have a Corsa exhaust swap done... If U hit the gas U will find yourself knee deep in triple digits in about as much time as it takes to look at the speedometer. A damn good reason why once the STS is gone... HUD needs to make its way into this car. The problem with this is that U don't hear it coming.. or at least I'm not used to it. In my Vette I have what is called a MILD2WILD device to keep my Exhaust flaps open.. and even if I didn't... above 3000 RPM.. they are open anyway. So at 100MPH the car is LOUD unless I hit the switch and close 'em up. Point is... U kno how fast U are going by sound... NOT IN THE V. U could be doing 120MPH and when the Officer drags your ass to his patrol car in handcuffs U will swear U were only doing 60.:(

I believe their reasoning was that not many people were buying the V8 versions of the past, so they put the DI 3.6L in there, instead. It turned out to be a good call, because sales went up overall (no doubt due to many reasons...but still). I remember reading that somewhere...wish I could find the link.

U mean in the STS??? The STS sales from the Northstar certainly took a nosedive when GM decided to Direct-Inject the 3.6L and do nothing to the NS, leaving the V6 model with 304HP and the $10K more expensive V8 model with only 16HP more. I kno for a fact that the 3.6L can get up to 350HP with a few cheap mods SEE LINK: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/7217...pow/index.html

This was because the NORTHSTAR was to be replace with the "Ultra V8" in 2010.. but it was killed due to CAFE. GM will now be kicking out probably two versions of the Gen V Small Block bot with DI, one with OHV config.. the other with OHC.

They also supposedly have a "Ecoboost" going in the 3.6L yielding an minimum 415-425HP.

Bottom line is that the CTS is seemingly moving into the STS's spot in Caddy's line-up.. meaning a V8 with 400HP (or V6 Turbo) is needed to compete with cars like the M45(50), BMW 550, E550 etc

I also suspect that the LSA won't stay identical to what we know it as now. I think "if" it gets used in the Camaro in the future, it will feature either more, or less hp...but it's gonna be different. I'm not sure why the Caddy folks would complain...the Corvette guys seem allright with the Camaro sharing its LS3.

Vette people mind... U should see the Corvette Forum when U mention CAMARO. They don't go nuts because Chevy did the right thing by hobbling the LS3 to 426 (easily retrievable).. not to mention the Camaro weighs substantially more.

I think it's crazy.. as I would love to be able to justify buying a Camaro as my everyday car in place of my G6. What a effin UPGRADE that would be. As it turns out... I'm at 92K miles on my Pontiac and will probably hit 180K by the time I replace it in 2012 with a VOLT

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by LSXgirl

Meh I think the ring is a good way to show what a car is capable of.

U're a GIRL.. What Do U kno???


I KID I KID...

I worship women

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by FrankT

I have one of these, also. Bought an automatic this time. Thunder Gray Chromaflair paint. Absolutely the nicest car I have ever owned. Took it to Lingenfelter in Indiana for their 630HP package. I am thrilled with the car, and the performance.

I almost got Thunder Gray. Beautiful color.

As for MODDING it to that extreme... I probably won't. If U have been to the Cadillac Forum U will see where I posted a warning about TUNING and the GM Warranty

LINK:http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...thing-cts.html

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

I believe the Camaro will only benefit further with the LSA engine in it. ALtho I am a firm believer that GM would be a fool to give the Z28 the 556HP version, without either boosting the CTS-V up to 600. Cadillac guys will be pissed. Second off I think that if Chevy does give it an LSA.. the Z06 should get the same set-up. The Vette would be OK with this as it is over 700lbs lighter. I mean seriously... if the GT500 is the Z28's intended target, the GT500, weighs the same thing as the Camaro SS. But it still doesn't have IRS, despite it having 115HP more and it still doesn't perform that much better than the SS... and it still costs damn near $50K compared to the SS's $34K.

I'm sorry but this is one for the books... I seriously am awestruck that a 426HP $34K Camaro, weighing only 15 lbs less... ran with a $50K 540HP Mustang (that's 114HP more)

YES the Mustang beat the Camaro... by 1/10th of a sec and 4 MPH. That is pathetic, and basically says that if the Camaro even remotely got the LSA (560HP without the "Quiet Tuned" exhaust from Cadillac restricting it) it would MURDER the GT500. Fact is that a Camaro with just the Base Corvette's 436HP LS3 would at least equal the GT500, altho I'm betting it would whip it.

On this one I'm not letting you slide....it's my blue oval duty. If were determined to only use numbers gathered in a direct comparison were going to find some close comparisons, the problem is that insisting we use the same effectively clouds the reality of the situation since what we know about these two cars says the GT500 is quite a bit faster. Why? Simple....

Thus far the best 1/4 mile turned in by a stock Camaro SS by anyone, anywhere...that we know of....is a 12.8x second run. Impressive to be sure, but this is nowhere near a bevy of GT500 runs including a literally blistering, bone stock, 11.95 second 1/4 mile run with Evan Smith behind the wheel. Easy to manage? Of course not, but it is doable and puts the GT500 in another league altogether when compared to the Camaro SS. Even major auto rags have seen 1/4 mile runs in the 12.3-12.4 second range now, which really serves to validate the high 11 second capability of this car on a good track with a good driver.

No shame here, the GT500 is packing a lot more engine and is competing on a different level....it should be considerably faster. That said, we can't cherry pick numbers if we want to really get to the heart of the matter either. A properly developed Z28 might best the GT500 with a LSA/LS9 under the hood, until GM cranks something like that out we'll never know. That said, we've arguably beaten the GT500 vs Camaro SS debate to death on this forum already and to cast either car in an unfair light really only serves to cheapen the very impressive performance of both.

[LSXgirl]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

U're a GIRL.. What Do U kno???


I KID I KID...

I worship women

I'm a girl whose owned several camaros, and the fastest production fwd to go around the ring...so it matters lol. Also if you don't think it's fast, talk to the boys in the m3's who've seen my beeeeeeehind haha. I love cts v's.

[The Viz]

You just don't know what you're missin' opt'ing not to get the Recaros!