GM to shutdown Factories

[90503]

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...2-gmsales.html

Click on the link above, then click the download pdf deliveries...

Sorry, not buying the "slow selling models" being the reason for the closing of US and Canadian plants....Look at Impala number for 3rd Qtr...It has consistently outsold every Cadillac but one, all Buicks, and about half the Chevrolet line-up including Camaro...Yeah, the Impala has got to go, that overused and probably paid for several time over platform just doesn't cut it anymore and can't make any money....Aside from all the other screw-ball reasons for which plants get closed, they can't even read their own sales numbers...


OK, yeah, there is some big high-minded reasoning and secret logic behind what they are doing....Common sense need not be considered....

Their is no loyalty or sense of patriotism....all about the almighty dollar....GM should make rope, then it could sell some to itself for the hanging....

[Chazzz]

The sad reality is these plants were operating nowhere near capacity and at a loss building products that sadly are no longer desirable. The old GM would have thrown huge incentives on the hoods of these cars to keep the plants running full capacity, regardless of loss. We all now know very well the end result of doing business in that manner. My heart goes out to those that got caught up in this sad situation, but in the big picture GM is making tough decisions based on trying not to repeat it’s past mistakes....

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Maintaining profitability is betrayal to whom? The American people saved GM so it could do exactly what it's doing.....protect and grow it's future. Maintaining jobs for cars that lose money seems like a charity. And if you think the American people simply created a big charity, well I'm glad you have the Christmas spirit.

Note Cruze production continues in Mexico and China and the CT6 continues in China.

The American people who saved GM to save jobs in America.

How should the American people feel about the cars and trucks on this list or the Chinese built Buick Envision or plug in CT6 sold in America?

GM has a real public relations problem. Completely tone deaf in the current political environment.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Anyone who thinks the US's economic power is in manufacturing is living in a fantasy world. It hasn't been that way since the WWII era. Our power is in innovation, new processes, new technology, etc. GM doesn't want to sell cars just in the US, they want to sell cars all over the world.

[protovack]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Ethanol? Had it's 5 minutes of fame and it's all but gone. GM tried to lead the way to E85 and not only got no credit for it, no longer has any E85 vehicles. Maybe the trucks are still capable.

As we run hell bent for 15 BILLION inhabitants of this planet, ICE can't be sustained. Even if Ethanol were to make a comeback, it's still combustion.

In the end, when you look at it, ICE does not work for a future of autonomous and ride sharing. An electric vehicle has huge advantages for that market.

There is nothing inherently wrong with combustion and ICEs are not going away. Ethanol is a great liquid fuel source and is probably what will allow us to continue using internal combustion in the future. It does not require the use of extremely heavy and toxic batteries. It's great stuff. However, the oil companies have effectively stopped the adoption of the fuel because, well, there's lots of oil left at this point and they control the entire distribution of liquid fuel. Look for ethanol to make a massive comeback when the oil runs out. That could be hundreds of years away but it IS coming. And it would be nice if we started laying the groundwork now. The midwest has hundreds of E85 stations and people use them all the time to fill up their flex-fuel silverados.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by protovack

There is nothing inherently wrong with combustion and ICEs are not going away. Ethanol is a great liquid fuel source and is probably what will allow us to continue using internal combustion in the future. It does not require the use of extremely heavy and toxic batteries. It's great stuff. However, the oil companies have effectively stopped the adoption of the fuel because, well, there's lots of oil left at this point and they control the entire distribution of liquid fuel. Look for ethanol to make a massive comeback when the oil runs out. That could be hundreds of years away but it IS coming. And it would be nice if we started laying the groundwork now. The midwest has hundreds of E85 stations and people use them all the time to fill up their flex-fuel silverados.

There is zero advantage to E85 in my 2011 Silverado. The cost is a wash.

[DaveC113]

It seems really strange Camaro and Vette aren't flex fuel.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by protovack

There is nothing inherently wrong with combustion and ICEs are not going away.

Sure there is, it's inherently less efficient then beaming energy directly to the car via powerlines, and the great thing about that is that it can be hydroelectric, solar, nuclear, or whatever. Most cities are using scalable gas-turbine power generators now that burn clean and have efficiency around 65% or better, which is way way better than ICE and you don't have to truck fuel around everywhere, to every little gas-station, let alone the energy it takes to build all those tanker trucks, storage facilities, and so on. Why limit yourself to one type of fuel when you can run electricity generated from a plethora of possible sources? ICE are surely going away, oh, not like some of the anti-electric alarmist claim, like some giant big switch being thrown and then after that date you have to "give up" your ICE car. They will simply continue to gain traction, as electric solutions have in many other industrial and consumer applications. There will be holdouts for a while where it's not practical, but eventually the engineering will be overcome. Frankly, I think some people are scared of the future, we tend to want to grab on to what we know and are used to, it's natural.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Doc

Here's a VERY interesting article about brand loyalty:

https://autoweek.com/article/car-lif...n=awdailydrive

The REALLY interesting part is the comments section below that. Although the article wasn't about any particular company, there are a lot of comments about GM, and even Camaro. Interestingly enough, the number one complaint about American manufacturers isn't styling or features; it's build quality number one, and price; value for the dollar.

Very interesting, indeed. I was kinda surprised at all of the pro-Mazda comments. Although, my wife and I were thinking about buying a new Cruze this year. That has gone out the window. Might take a look at the new Mazda 3 (beautiful vehicle).

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Sure there is, it's inherently less efficient then beaming energy directly to the car via powerlines, and the great thing about that is that it can be hydroelectric, solar, nuclear, or whatever. Most cities are using scalable gas-turbine power generators now that burn clean and have efficiency around 65% or better, which is way way better than ICE and you don't have to truck fuel around everywhere, to every little gas-station, let alone the energy it takes to build all those tanker trucks, storage facilities, and so on. Why limit yourself to one type of fuel when you can run electricity generated from a plethora of possible sources? ICE are surely going away, oh, not like some of the anti-electric alarmist claim, like some giant big switch being thrown and then after that date you have to "give up" your ICE car. They will simply continue to gain traction, as electric solutions have in many other industrial and consumer applications. There will be holdouts for a while where it's not practical, but eventually the engineering will be overcome. Frankly, I think some people are scared of the future, we tend to want to grab on to what we know and are used to, it's natural.

Not scared of the future, except in the sense that a predetermined future is being forced upon us. The electric vehicle market would not exist (aside from the occasional novelty exotic like the old Lotus-derived Tesla Roadster) if not for government intervention, paid for without being asked first by a public which wasn't exactly clamoring for such propulsion systems beforehand, through taxes on the government side and higher prices on every vehicle (EV or not) to fund R&D on EVs or even stopgap measures to allow ICE to keep up with CAFE on the manufacturer's side.

Were the market to have evolved naturally based on demand, no issue, but that's far too slow for activist types who've infiltrated what is supposed to be a representative government (of the people, not special interests like environmentalists). Whatever the benefits of electric, they are not worth the "ends justify the means" measures being used by the state to achieve them, which are absolutely something to be scared of.

[bturner2]

Let's all be honest here about what GM has done. They said they were making NA reductions but those reductions only occurred in Canada and the US. Interesting that some of those platforms they're eliminating are also being manufactured in Mexico. They also recently announced that the Blazer would be made in Mexico. Hmmm why would that be? Could it be because they planned to close those other plants all along?

Stevie Ray can even see through this thinly veiled move to move it's manufacturing out of the US to Mexico. By closing the Canadian and US plants and ramping up new production in Mexican plants they have by default shifted (weaseled) their manufacturing to Mexico. I'm sure all these moves were timed with the intent to deceive their long planned objective with misdirection. With the old guard in place this probably would have slid right by. With Trump at the wheel I think the outcome quite possibly could be different, we'll see.

When it comes to GM the old adage "figures don't lie, but liars figure" rings very true.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Wow, not sure where this came from. GM is closing factories on poor selling cars that make them no money. Doing so in order to protect the future of the company is far from abandoning any ICE. Watch the auto show coming up. All of the cars on the docket for the next few years (Trailblazer, C8, CT5, CT4, XT6, Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, etc.) are ALL ICE with maybe a hybrid option thrown in. Far from abandoning anything.

Sorry, but SUVs aren't cars, and the vehicles in your list that aren't SUVs, are definitely further up-market than what a great many buyers can realistically afford.

What about the $6B being thrown at Cruise Automation? Or the 20 (new) EV's being proposed by 2023?

Something's got to give, and evidently GM intends to take it all out of those who want ICE-powered [non-SUV/CUV] cars.


Either you've never had to deal with automobile companies abandoning to any significant extent what you want in a car, or you're ready and willing to roll over and accept something that you never would if the choice existed.

I hear you can still buy a flip phone.

Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong at all with stepping back from the virtual/technological/instantly-available-always-connected world.



Norm

[mdhopt36]

As I said in a post that got deleted, the idea of a runaway "hothouse earth" is bunk, plain and simple. As Norm says, I am in total agreement. (wrong direction)
In light of that, because there are alarmists being the LOUDEST and having more effect on ones who set policy under a false premise, corporations are building cars people don't want.
That certainly is a business model doomed to fail. They will have to axe jobs to survive.

On top of that, the infrastructure of battery powered toy cars doesn't exist to the extent of what's in place with fuels now being used. The cost involved to change over the infrastructure from fuels to charging stations would be tremendous.
******
Would I attempt a coast to coast trip in a Tesla???? No friggin way.
But in any decent town, there are likely a dozen gas stations available to keep you moving.
Long live ICE.

[Silverado57]

Originally Posted by mdhopt36

...
Would I attempt a coast to coast trip in a Tesla???? No friggin way.
But in any decent town, there are likely a dozen gas stations available to keep you moving.
Long live ICE.

I was curious about the Teslas so I went to the source and spoke to a couple of owners.
The first owner commented that the Tesla S is a nice car - but it better be a nice car for $100K.
The second owner was kind of wishy-washy about his. He said one of the biggest drawback is the lack of range and recharging challenges.

I have a friend with an electric Chevy Bolt. He loves it. I drove it and it was fun. But he only uses it as a commuter car and admitted he had one butt puckering day almost running out of charge.