The Tundra...you've got to be kidding..

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

...Edmunds and J.D. Power are biased towards domestic vehicles

Yeah...that's it. Probably coming from ricers who read consumer reports...now, there's a credible source.

[AirGoya]

Score one for the good guys!!!!!!!!
I just wish GM would let people know about this.
But i guess we are being classy by not.

[stovt001]

As a long time Edmunds fan, I can say that in my observation as a whole they are not biased one way or another. There are individual editors that are for sure, but I think they all balance out. Just my humble opinion.

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by stovt001

Its just like the GM of the late 70s until recently. They grew big, invincible, and cocky. People would buy the stuff just because of the name and rep, but really it is sub par. Eventually it will catch up to them. Such is the cycle.

I'm going to take this a step farther and say that during that time in GM's life, they had grown to be larger than life, much like Toyota has achieved now... but when you are getting to a point where the demand is so high for your products, something has to suffer... and in GM's case, as well as Toyota's case, quality was the weak link in the chain.

success and arrogance usually travel hand in hand... one of the few things that Honda has done right is to know that they have almost perfected the art of front wheel drive and only on VERY rare occasion have they produced a rear wheel drive vehicle... even their Ridgeline is a front wheel drive based vehicle, and it is doing battle in a market that is DOMINATED by rear wheel drive machines... but that's their niche, and they know they do it well, so why mess with success?

Toyota will always be there to fight another day... but quality issues like the ones they are having now will push loyal consumers away at a rate that will surprise their top brass... dont believe me? ask Ford what it was like to realize that they couldn't survive selling Mustangs and F-150s.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle

I'm going to take this a step farther and say that during that time in GM's life, they had grown to be larger than life, much like Toyota has achieved now... but when you are getting to a point where the demand is so high for your products, something has to suffer... and in GM's case, as well as Toyota's case, quality was the weak link in the chain.

success and arrogance usually travel hand in hand... one of the few things that Honda has done right is to know that they have almost perfected the art of front wheel drive and only on VERY rare occasion have they produced a rear wheel drive vehicle... even their Ridgeline is a front wheel drive based vehicle, and it is doing battle in a market that is DOMINATED by rear wheel drive machines... but that's their niche, and they know they do it well, so why mess with success?

Toyota will always be there to fight another day... but quality issues like the ones they are having now will push loyal consumers away at a rate that will surprise their top brass... dont believe me? ask Ford what it was like to realize that they couldn't survive selling Mustangs and F-150s.

I agree 100%. That's why I respect Honda so much. They know what they're good at, and they focus on perfecting that. They don't try to please everybody. Most of their products are not what I'm looking for, but they are still very good products. Toyota just cares about being the biggest, not the best. They used quality to get to the top, and now that they're there they just don't care much anymore. Its a sad but pretty much unavoidable fate in corporate culture. Combine stockholders who just care about stock price and dividends with power hungry and proud executives, and bad things happen.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by stovt001

That's why I respect Honda so much. They know what they're good at, and they focus on perfecting that. They don't try to please everybody.

It's funny you mention that. Because, in essence...GM is beginning to do that. Put together the recent news articles...

GM sells Allison, a HD truck transmission
GM sells Medium-duty trucks buisness (corporate use) follow link
GM re-invents the Malibu.
GM makes ZR-1
GM bringing back Camaro
GM opting for "more" RWD cars. (subjective term, the company is so huge)

Then there's this quote regarding the truck sale:
"GM called the planned sale "another step" in a series of divestitures by which the Detroit-based automaker has been tightening its operating focus on automobiles and light trucks."

What is GM? a passenger vehicle company with a resplendant reputation for it's performance cars. They dipped their feet into low-volume fleet trucks, found out that they have a talent for that, too...but these particular trucks aren't needed. They are an afterthought - and afterthoughts are useless. Same with Allison. Instead, GM will be building 4500 series trucks...

Anyways, I thought it was worth a mention I think we can excpect GREAT things from the General in coming years.

[stovt001]

Yup, its a good example. Also, within GM the brands are becoming more focused. Each brand is being allowed to reach a specific market well.

[ChevyNut]

I would have prefered that GM kept Allison transmisions because they are another selling point for the 2500 and 3500 Duramax's. with an out side company running the operation quality could slip and in turn affect the quality of two GM vehicles. I know GM would never allow subpar parts to be put into their vehicles, however and im just guessing here, that in order for GM to accept an order of 10,000 transmisions they have to randomly test 100 or so to ensure quality. and they happen to hit the statistical lottery and pick 100 good transmissions out of 10,000 but 2-3k of the transmissions wear prematurly and fail at 5000 miles that is going to force GM to replace the transmissions and those 2-3k people are going to tell alot of their friends that the tranny took a crap at 5000 miles yet another thing that could affect sales.

ok sorry rant off now, ive got my flame suit on and ready for the rebuttals.

[DGthe3]

I've thought the same thing with statistics. And while it is possible to pick only the best ones, the odds are slim to nill. lets assume that only transmissions in the top 50% are chosen. the odds of doing that one time is 50%. the odds of doing that twice in a row is 25%. 3 times in a row is 12.5%. Doing it 10 times? its around 1 in 1000 odds, so checking the production run once a week, it should happen once in 20 years that you get 10 tranmissions in the top 50%. Going to a test lot of 100? it is 7.88860905 × 10^(-29)% which is a number so incredibly small its impossible to imagine and is practically impossible to achive. This is just the odds of using only tranmissions that are in the top 50% of the lot. The chances of using only the top 10% are significanly lower.

And that is only using the top 50%, the numbers are more impossible to achieve if you use the top 10%