Motortrends Car of the Year: Tesla Model S

[Angrybird 12]

Innovation and ground breaking design were both mentioned when MT picked the Corvair and the Chevy Vega as Cars of the year...
I take little stock in MT's COTY Award.

[crateish]

Very likely, my next car in a couple of years.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

So wait a year or two longer and all of a sudden you can afford one.

I don't think regular people who would be shopping for a brand new midsize in the 20 - 30 K range can afford to "wait a year or two" and then buy a 50K+ car.

I get your point, you feel any car no matter the price as long as it meets the MT criteria deserve the award...and I have no problem with that.

But if you think most people out there can just save up a bit longer and then suddenly afford a 50 thousand dollar (or much more) car you are obviously a bit out of touch. Thats where your statement made no sense.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I don't think regular people who would be shopping for a brand new midsize in the 20 - 30 K range can afford to "wait a year or two" and then buy a 50K+ car.

I get your point, you feel any car no matter the price as long as it meets the MT criteria deserve the award...and I have no problem with that.

But if you think most people out there can just save up a bit longer and then suddenly afford a 50 thousand dollar (or much more) car you are obviously a bit out of touch. Thats where your statement made no sense.

I interpreted his statement as waiting a couple years for a lightly used model.

As for the affordability argument, how exactly does one define what an 'affordable' car is? Different income levels and life stages have vastly different interpretations of affordable. When you have a part time job making minimum wage as you work your way through university, no new car is affordable (and most used cars are out of your league too). When you're in your 50's with the mortgage paid off, kids out of the house, and a well paying job you can afford quite a bit. Most people fall somewhere in between. But the point is, when there is such a difference between groups of 'normal' people (ie, folks that nobody would consider rich) how do you set the limit for affordability? You can't make it the lowest common denominator because no new car could ever be affordable. Even setting it at the average sticker price puts it too low, IMO, because there millions of new cars sold above that price. Plus, transaction prices are almost always lower than the MSRP. So set it somewhat higher than that ... ok, fair enough. How far is 'somewhat'? 20% above? 60? 100?

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I interpreted his statement as waiting a couple years for a lightly used model.

As for the affordability argument, how exactly does one define what an 'affordable' car is? Different income levels and life stages have vastly different interpretations of affordable. When you have a part time job making minimum wage as you work your way through university, no new car is affordable (and most used cars are out of your league too). When you're in your 50's with the mortgage paid off, kids out of the house, and a well paying job you can afford quite a bit. Most people fall somewhere in between. But the point is, when there is such a difference between groups of 'normal' people (ie, folks that nobody would consider rich) how do you set the limit for affordability? You can't make it the lowest common denominator because no new car could ever be affordable. Even setting it at the average sticker price puts it too low, IMO, because there millions of new cars sold above that price. Plus, transaction prices are almost always lower than the MSRP. So set it somewhat higher than that ... ok, fair enough. How far is 'somewhat'? 20% above? 60? 100?

[2SS45th]

Will never own a Tesla, I've been around them a lot, and know a few people with them. The people that have them aren't that thrilled either, they don't get the claimed range, so you really can't go that far. As far as an electric sports car, give me a break, you have to drive it nice to get it to go far, and you don't do that in a sports car. However, I do like the Volt, and is being added to the family this weekend, so I do like electric cars.

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by Stew

So, I am wondering, did you have these same issues when the $40k COMPACT Chevy volt got the calipers last year?

Yes and no. With the Volt, GM was at least pretending (or sincerely but naively thinking) that the Volt would be a mainstream car that would push the entire car market forward and change the way we all drive. Given the Tesla's combination of price and overall practicality, there is no indication that this is trying to be anything other than a boutique car.

Also, the Volt at least had a multiple speed transmission. Engineering excellence is part of the COTY criteria, and when I see a company that tried and failed miserably to create just a two speed transmission, I am not seeing engineering excellence.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I interpreted his statement as waiting a couple years for a lightly used model.

Finding a used model to make it more affordable to me makes less sense with an electric than with a conventional car, though. Again, a conventional car lasts about 15 to 20 years on average. An electric will not.

[trewyn15]

Originally Posted by 2SS45th

Will never own a Tesla, I've been around them a lot, and know a few people with them. The people that have them aren't that thrilled either, they don't get the claimed range, so you really can't go that far. As far as an electric sports car, give me a break, you have to drive it nice to get it to go far, and you don't do that in a sports car. However, I do like the Volt, and is being added to the family this weekend, so I do like electric cars.

This doesn't make much sense to me... Just like a sports car, if you beat on a vehicle it's going to not last as long to the last fill-up or charge.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by 2SS45th

Will never own a Tesla, I've been around them a lot, and know a few people with them. The people that have them aren't that thrilled either, they don't get the claimed range, so you really can't go that far. As far as an electric sports car, give me a break, you have to drive it nice to get it to go far, and you don't do that in a sports car. However, I do like the Volt, and is being added to the family this weekend, so I do like electric cars.

The Model S isn't a sports car, its a (and I'm guessing here) large sedan

[rez333]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Plenty of middle class families can afford $50k cars, if they want them. Can the majority? Maybe not. But its not astronomically, outragously expensive for them either.


I mean, are the ZL1 or Corvette cars exclusively for the rich?

This. LOL on whiney Americans!!

Why don't whiners take a look on the map for this continent they call "Europe". Your ancestors likely came from "Europe". Europeans pay twice what you pay for a car, and twice as much for gas - and they earn about the same, and pay more taxes too.

whiney Americans.

[Russo]

i dont care how much the vehicle costs, but if it's subsidized by the taxpayer that should immediately disqualify it from being coty..

[upflying]

Originally Posted by Russo

i dont care how much the vehicle costs, but if it's subsidized by the taxpayer that should immediately disqualify it from being coty..

Especially if Tesla can't repay it's $465 million Department of Energy loan.
Another Solyndra on the horizon?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8930SL20121004

[fielderLS3]

Originally Posted by rez333

Europeans pay twice what you pay for a car, and twice as much for gas - and they earn about the same, and pay more taxes too.

Which explains why Europe is the model for economic health that it is today, right?

As for Europeans paying double what we do for cars....yes and no. Comparable cars do cost twice in much in many cases...so what happens in practice, Europeans tend to pay the same and drive half the car that we do.

And they are not necessarily paying more for fuel. Gas yes, but many cars in Europe are diesels. Less strict regulations on diesel means diesels are relatively cheaper to buy over there than here. It also means they tend to get better mileage than US diesels, and combined with diesel being taxed much less than gasoline in many parts of Europe, the per mile cost of driving a diesel car in Europe is actually quite comparable, and in some situations, perhaps even cheaper than driving a gas powered car in the US.

[Russo]

Originally Posted by fielderLS3

Which explains why Europe is the model for economic health that it is today, right?

As for Europeans paying double what we do for cars....yes and no. Comparable cars do cost twice in much in many cases...so what happens in practice, Europeans tend to pay the same and drive half the car that we do.

And they are not necessarily paying more for fuel. Gas yes, but many cars in Europe are diesels. Less strict regulations on diesel means diesels are relatively cheaper to buy over there than here. It also means they tend to get better mileage than US diesels, and combined with diesel being taxed much less than gasoline in many parts of Europe, the per mile cost of driving a diesel car in Europe is actually quite comparable, and in some situations, perhaps even cheaper than driving a gas powered car in the US.

there you go, using facts, logic, and reason again..