2013 GT500 going to the Ring in April

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

My dad can beat up your dad....

Let me know when either the GT500 or the ZL1 touch this "weak" N/A 505 HP monster around the ring. 7:22.68

I watched the ZL1 and Z06 (^) video side-by-side for kicks one day...The Camaro seemed much more stable throughout, and carried just a tick higher speed down that back-straight...Does that count?

I'd never call the Z06 "weak". What a marvelous machine!

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

....there is a diminishing return in increasing horsepower on street cars....these cars can't hook up from the factory as produced, on street tires, no matter which factory makes them, or what factory suspension harware improvents they place on them, or how they advertise it, without the aid of electronics and computers. Horsepower/torque, at the levels they are now producing, needs to be taken out of the motor and drivetrain, reducing available horsepower and torque to the rear wheels, (thereby negating the monstous advertised horsepower) to get any kind of traction from a drag race launch and run without making serious suspension and traction improvements to the frame, chassis etc...which would make the car a real drag race machine and take it away from being a street car....thus voiding the warranty. It's a high wire tightrope balancing act. In a pure sense of observation, what good is 580....650, or whatever HP if you can't use it at full potential? It's coming down not to horsepower, but who can engineer and integrate software, computers, and electronics to the motor, suspension and drivetrain to manage and limit slip (taking HP away from the motor).

There is a diminishing return with almost every performance aspect of an automobile because it is harder to gain performance from a better base. You should note that the gearing change has resulted in lower torque output in the low gears, so corner exits should actually be more controlled.

[Huggerorange73]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I watched the ZL1 and Z06 (^) video side-by-side for kicks one day...The Camaro seemed much more stable throughout, and carried just a tick higher speed down that back-straight...Does that count?

I'd never call the Z06 "weak". What a marvelous machine!

The Z06 is the goal for me.....and I'll get it sooner or later.

For now, I have to be content with my "lowly" C5 LS1.

But it is a marvelous machine.

For what the ZL1 weighs, the ring time is damn impressive, but before everyone starts going goofy...keep in perspective that the Z06 was 21 seconds faster.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Huggerorange73

The Z06 is the goal for me.....and I'll get it sooner or later.

For now, I have to be content with my "lowly" C5 LS1.

But it is a marvelous machine.

For what the ZL1 weighs, the ring time is damn impressive, but before everyone starts going goofy...keep in perspective that the Z06 was 21 seconds faster.

Yes. The Z06 + Z07 is faster.

[ParisTNDude]

My runs at the ring in a modded C5 were the most enjoyable motorsport ever. I drove, obviously, on a tourist day which means buses, motorcycles, vans, VW diesels and a lot of very fast cars were on the course with me. I was amazed at how few European sports cars there were that could out accelerate my C5. I had the C5 at 165 on the longest straight possible on tourist days. They start you out and you end in the middle of the longest straight. You get airborn at least twice if you drive hard at all. Awesome!

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

Does anyone know the rules for production cars to run and claim an "official" lap time there? Is there a third party involved to inspect the car's production guise and validate a car's lap time? I remember reading somewhere or watched a show awhile back about car manufacturers have been known to run "test mules" or "ringers" there that were not quite the "production" version of their cars.

The car needs to be on street legal tires for a start, slicks are not allowed.

When the GTR did it's 7:26 Porsche indeed claimed that Nissan cheated by putting on stickier tires, but those tires came standard later on. (went from Bridgestones to Dunlops IIRC) Porsche however never showed a video where their times of the GT2 (7:38 at the time) were visible.

Originally Posted by Sax1031

As soon as a roll cage goes in a car you can pretty much cross out track times for "production" cars to begin with.

Sorry to say, but car manufacturers need to have that roll cage installed for safety, otherwise they can't even test on "factory days"...

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

The Nurburgring is not closed.

The regional German government owns the Nurburging, and for the past two years had leased the operating rights to a private company. The regional German government has terminated the lease with the private company, and wants to find new operators. As the search for new operators takes place the regional German government will take control of the track and fund all facility operations.

That is the only correct statement about the Ring.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by PeeBee

Sorry to say, but car manufacturers need to have that roll cage installed for safety, otherwise they can't even test on "factory days"...

I understand that.

Just realize the time is not an accurate representation of a production car.

[Erik@Torq]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

No way!


Really???

I'm racing an event there in may so i sure hope not

One thing that many people forget is that The Nurburgring and The Nordschleife are two essentially different tracks, run by different groups of people. Then there is the all new conference center/amusement park owned by the Nmgbh that is up to their arms in debt and a huge shame for the area.

The Nordschleife, or Northern Loop in English is open for public, and is not going anywhere soon. The new center and so called amusement park is a whole different story. Also the F1 GP track is somewhat more effected then the North Loop from this money issue.

I've lived there, spent countless weekends there when living in Sweden driven about 6-700laps on her and my sister lives 45min away. That track feels like home, a very dangerous home maybe, but still home. The track is to important for the local economy to shut it down, same forthe GP track with Formula 1 and all. Just get rid of that monstrosity of an amusement park/center whatchamacallit and everyone will be happy again.

/Erik

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by PeeBee

Sorry to say, but car manufacturers need to have that roll cage installed for safety, otherwise they can't even test on "factory days"...

Which makes it a non production car, a production car is out of the showroom.

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

Which makes it a non production car, a production car is out of the showroom.

So to you, a Group N rally car (standard cars) wouldn't be a "production car" either?

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I understand that.

Just realize the time is not an accurate representation of a production car.

The fact that every car run by manufacturers has to have one, kind of zeroes out the effect of having that roll cage, I would say?

[YourBlindingBias]

Originally Posted by PeeBee

So to you, a Group N rally car (standard cars) wouldn't be a "production car" either?



The fact that every car run by manufacturers has to have one, kind of zeroes out the effect of having that roll cage, I would say?

huh? I am talking about the ZL1...
All I'm saying is that it isn't production car off the lot that ran on the ring you can't really argue that.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Yes. The Z06 + Z07 is faster.

And the original Z06 time was a standing start lap time.

[PeeBee]

Originally Posted by YourBlindingBias

huh? I am talking about the ZL1...
All I'm saying is that it isn't production car off the lot that ran on the ring you can't really argue that.

Besides the roll cage, added for safety reasons, what is so different about the ZL-1 than, that doesn't make it a "production car" for you?

As I said, every car on the Ring, run by manufacturers needs to have one, or it's a no go. The fact they all need one, makes it a non-existant argument whether the car is fully "production" or not, IMHO...

To my knowledge, the only "production car" that ever ran the Ring without an added roll cage, was the Radical SR3 (6.48), which then was overruled because it's only a "Single Vehicle Approval" in the UK... Yet it was driven there from the factory, did it's lap, and drove back to the UK...

Same reason why the Zonda R/FXX haven't been qualified officially as "fastest production car", they're track only...


PS: on a side note: I'll be happy to show what a "production" SLP ZL585 can do on a good day on the Ring, when I finally will get mine road registered here (blaming the Ministry of Traffic for their stupid rules here).