Here goes the UAW again....

[nferno]

Originally Posted by el ess X

No, they made a choice. In the U.S., you don't have a "right" to a job, or a "right" to health care, or a "right" to anything else associated with employment. You do have the right to quit (assuming no contract) and go find a different/better job. This is partly the problem with America right now, is that the Entitlement Society somehow feels it's others' problems for their well-being and they have some sort of "right" to a job.

If you got the moxy, drive, and desire, you too could be making 20 million or more a year. But if you don't, then you'll settle for table scraps. If you want better for yourself, you can't wish it true, or make those better off than you pay for your lack of initiative. But with that said, not everyone can be a CEO.

To put it bluntly, like in the navy, if it wasn't issued in your sea bag, it's your problem. If you think you can afford to get married and have a family, do it. If you can't, then sacrifice, get an education (I finished my college degree while working full time, so nobody can say it cannot be done), get a better paying job and then go get and raise your family. Depend on yourself, not others. If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way. If not, you probably need to stay where you are.

Agreed (If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way. If not, you probably need to stay where you are.) but sometimes you already have a family and you did have a good job and do have a degree and you get canned becuse of for whatever reason out of your control. They can not just get ride of there responsibilitys, but americans have the right to pursue happiness right? that is a basic right. not everyone can go to collage. but there are plenty of ways to get a good education just people are narrow minded about how they got it and discount them as stupid and undeserving. lazy people are on the lines , managers and ceos, laziness is not bias.

[cab2g]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

And when they lose their job, they refuse to take a lesser job until something else better comes along ... That's the problem

the majority of people who couldn't find a job that they were qualified for are working at jobs they are overqualified for. If they need money, they will take what jobs they can get! I know a married couple who graduated college in 07. One was a dog walker, and the other is a fed-ex driver. The fed ex driver is getting promoted. The dog walker kept looking for other work and now works in the photography business doing something she loves. I don't know a single person that graduated and couldn't find the job they wanted or got laid off who said, I am not going to take a pay cut and I'm going to sit on my butt until somebody offers me the job I want. I know a ton of people that took pay cuts when they got laid off and found new jobs. I know nobody that is still unemployed that was laid off in 2008.

[nferno]

Originally Posted by Larz29

Golden Bear - Well said. I will leave my opinion with one last point. This is a complicated world, even if we try to simplify our own personal opinions to others. We each have our own views, but one thing we all have in common in this forum is our love for muscle cars and camaro's in particular!! At the end of the day we can have lively discussions like this and that is what makes America great!!!

nicely said

[AZCamaroFan]

$5,000 Bonus

[buzzy56]

Boy this thread sounds like class warfare.Just what our government wants.
Union or non- union which is best ?Unions served their purpose for many years when workers were taken advantage of by their employers without the ability or means to do anything about it.Now workers in unionized companies are overprotected with many not being held responsible for their actions Just like the bankers,Investment firm managers,Congressmen,and Senators.Its funny OUR government chose to bail out the savings and loans,the Wall street firms,The too big too fail Banker.Some on here are pointing the finger at the little guy ,whom might be out of a job drawing unemployment,food stamps or any other government handout,Just like the tax breaks for Business, Farmers, Solar panel start ups and many many others.
So it is all relative.If your on the top you want to maximize profits,reduce cost,and give little if any concessions which would increase costs.If your on the bottom you want more to improve your lot in life.
For those of you who think that a degree equals guaranteed employment are not living in the present.I have a few relatives with teaching degrees,Masters,and bachelors and just graduated and are still looking for Jobs with a living paying wage.Things have changed.The jobs are gone or leaving the U.S. and will never return(without Tax incentives).That is reality.
So if you are living the good life now don't be so harsh and blinded by your current position in life.Many many people whom had everything they thought important in life have been brought to their knees during the recent recession.So it just might be that the little guy at the bottom looking up someday just might be you.I am sure your opinion would be vastly different if that were to happen.
I have not seen the government bailing out workers and taxpayers to the tune of Billions and Billions of dollars.But I have seen Company's, and Government entities getting bailouts over and over and very few if any being holds responsible for maleficence or mis-appropriation of money.So who do you really think the bad guys are? Who's the badest of them all ?

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by nferno

Agreed (If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way. If not, you probably need to stay where you are.) but sometimes you already have a family and you did have a good job and do have a degree and you get canned becuse of for whatever reason out of your control. They can not just get ride of there responsibilitys, but americans have the right to pursue happiness right? that is a basic right. not everyone can go to collage. but there are plenty of ways to get a good education just people are narrow minded about how they got it and discount them as stupid and undeserving. lazy people are on the lines , managers and ceos, laziness is not bias.

Things that are truly out of your control, are out of your control. So you focus on controlling the things you CAN control. You can sit and whine about it, or get off your butt and do something about it. If life hands you lemons...

And yes, you have a "right" to pursue happiness. But that's where it ends. You have to pursue it, as it is highly unlikely it will pursue you.

[nferno]

Originally Posted by el ess X

Things that are truly out of your control, are out of your control. So you focus on controlling the things you CAN control. You can sit and whine about it, or get off your butt and do something about it. If life hands you lemons...

And yes, you have a "right" to pursue happiness. But that's where it ends. You have to pursue it, as it is highly unlikely it will pursue you.

I hear ya, but it is the if you only make $10 hr you should not have a family! Maybe just having a familiy is the happiness they were looking for? thats all I was saying. Money dose not mean alot if you are alone with it. I would give everything up for my family in a heart beat! they are always going to be there. not the company you work for. money dose not = happiness I know alot of people with no money just happy to have healthy kids not one complaint from them about money.

[nferno]

Originally Posted by buzzy56

Boy this thread sounds like class warfare.Just what our government wants.
Union or non- union which is best ?Unions served their purpose for many years when workers were taken advantage of by their employers without the ability or means to do anything about it.Now workers in unionized companies are overprotected with many not being held responsible for their actions Just like the bankers,Investment firm managers,Congressmen,and Senators.Its funny OUR government chose to bail out the savings and loans,the Wall street firms,The too big too fail Banker.Some on here are pointing the finger at the little guy ,whom might be out of a job drawing unemployment,food stamps or any other government handout,Just like the tax breaks for Business, Farmers, Solar panel start ups and many many others.
So it is all relative.If your on the top you want to maximize profits,reduce cost,and give little if any concessions which would increase costs.If your on the bottom you want more to improve your lot in life.
For those of you who think that a degree equals guaranteed employment are not living in the present.I have a few relatives with teaching degrees,Masters,and bachelors and just graduated and are still looking for Jobs with a living paying wage.Things have changed.The jobs are gone or leaving the U.S. and will never return(without Tax incentives).That is reality.
So if you are living the good life now don't be so harsh and blinded by your current position in life.Many many people whom had everything they thought important in life have been brought to their knees during the recent recession.So it just might be that the little guy at the bottom looking up someday just might be you.I am sure your opinion would be vastly different if that were to happen.
I have not seen the government bailing out workers and taxpayers to the tune of Billions and Billions of dollars.But I have seen Company's, and Government entities getting bailouts over and over and very few if any being holds responsible for maleficence or mis-appropriation of money.So who do you really think the bad guys are? Who's the badest of them all ?

Agreed

[Berean]

Originally Posted by liquidsmoke

also, whats to stop a company like GM from saying, ok were done with unions, if u want to work here you can't be in a union and that be the end of it. This to me seems like, if companies didn't like unions (which I'm sure they don't) would be the end game as the company can wait a lot longer than an individual can.

Federal and state laws force companies to recognize unions. Been that way since the 30's. Thanks FDR. Prior to that, Ford used to hire security to throw union people off their property. Ford also had the highest wages of any auto maker, without unions.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by el ess X

No, they made a choice. In the U.S., you don't have a "right" to a job, or a "right" to health care, or a "right" to anything else associated with employment. You do have the right to quit (assuming no contract) and go find a different/better job. This is partly the problem with America right now, is that the Entitlement Society somehow feels it's others' problems for their well-being and they have some sort of "right" to a job.

If you got the moxy, drive, and desire, you too could be making 20 million or more a year. But if you don't, then you'll settle for table scraps. If you want better for yourself, you can't wish it true, or make those better off than you pay for your lack of initiative. But with that said, not everyone can be a CEO.

To put it bluntly, like in the navy, if it wasn't issued in your sea bag, it's your problem. If you think you can afford to get married and have a family, do it. If you can't, then sacrifice, get an education (I finished my college degree while working full time, so nobody can say it cannot be done), get a better paying job and then go get and raise your family. Depend on yourself, not others. If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way. If not, you probably need to stay where you are.

Well said.

[Berean]

Originally Posted by nferno

I hear ya, but it is the if you only make $10 hr you should not have a family! Maybe just having a familiy is the happiness they were looking for? thats all I was saying.

No problem, but people shouldn't expect society to pick up the tab if they can't afford a family.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by Berean

Federal and state laws force companies to recognize unions. Been that way since the 30's. Thanks FDR. Prior to that, Ford used to hire security to throw union people off their property. Ford also had the highest wages of any auto maker, without unions.

Also in a "Right to Work" State, a worker can't be forced to join a union in order to work at a particular job.

[nferno]

Originally Posted by Berean

No problem, but people shouldn't expect society to pick up the tab if they can't afford a family.

I agree

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by nferno

If you want dictated salaries, move to red China? If you want the workers to just take it and shut up then move to red china! Alot of the CEO'S have no idear what they are doing just fill ther pockets and move on to the board and then dictated the new CEO's wages (thats why they are so high) not because of there skills. CEO'S run a company and have no Idear what the company even dose.

IDEA... IDEA IDEA IDEA!

Sorry just had to get that out.

But anyway this is a completely ignorant statement. There are many many CEO's and other high level management that started just as low as everyone else. My prior job (at a very big name company) the CEO started out in the freekin mailroom sorting mail 50something years ago, and if you look at almost any other CEO out there they didn't just walk into that job. Realize most of us who are complaining are in our 20's-40's and most of these guys are in their 60's. Most of them have a LOT of years on us.

CEOs are paid for the fact that the weight of the company rests on their shoulders and their decisions can affect every single person from the highest VP to the lowest mailroom clerk. Despite the facade they often work 7 days a week, are always connected even when on vacation, and many times cut years off their later life due to the stress. Are there some deadbeats out there? Yes, theres deadbeats in every job (I'm sure all of us can look around and pick a few out now), but pigeonholing all of them for a few that suck is just as bad as saying all union workers are lazy bums.


Now on that subject, or the subject of wages in general. A few people said it very well here, live within your means. If you make $10 an hour then spend it on condoms so you don't have another mouth to feed. Many people believe its their right to these things, no its a PRIVILEGE to have kids, and a house, etc. You don't need or have a "right" to an iPhone, a new Camaro, a big screen tv, a wife, kids, etc. These are things you need to work and plan for. And if you did all that and lose your job, you need to do what you have to do to make things right. My folks didn't have a ton of money, but they let me live at home, so in college I could work 3 jobs to pay for everything else, including my car. And I had a nice car, because I broke my ass for it. And to this day I have nice stuff and live in a nice place that I own because I work for it.

But if I lost my job, I would do what I have to do to make some money, sell my stuff, cut out bills, etc to do the right thing for myself and survive. Most people instead just want to whine about it and expect the government to hand them a bonus for sharing the air we all breathe.

Which gets me to these union battles. They made an interesting point against themselves. That their workers get paid more than non-union shops. But if the people in the non-union shops were unhappy wouldn't they be forming up? They aren't, they are doing fine within their means. So if they are making less than the union guys are, than how do they get off with saying they need ANOTHER raise for "cost of living" or who knows what else.