Mustang preparing for its rivals

[The_Stache]

Dragon just like everything factory, its not extreme. Roots don't stress an engine with huge pressure but do bump it up a bit.

Take for instance the mustang..

The gt500 runs on 8.5 psi but has been show that it can handle up to 14ish reliably.. this is done as an overkill for the warranties.. build it to handle more power than the average person will give it and it will last.. thats why manufactures like roots, they are low pressure, easily controlled, and consistent (ie easy to fuel map).

Edit - Forgot to put in that they are cheap to build too like dgthe3 said

[Mr. Wyndham]

I see. So centrfugals aren't bad or anything, then, right? The manufacturers just aren't putting superchargers on for any real performance, rather just a little "nudge"...

[The_Stache]

Well... 8psi boost isn't anything to sneeze at... its just not bleeding edge top of the line best you can buy type...

But yea you could say "nudge"...

Oh and other forms of boost are the same they are just more complicated/higher priced.. well I wont go into it you have the boost thread to reference....

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

...well I wont go into it you have the boost thread to reference....

Right! Thanks.

[Stig]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Or even better, Buy a Camaro and be faster, then when they add their supercharger to finally catch up to you...."level the playing field" and add a supercharger to your Camaro. If an average of a 50% power gain is a fair average, Then we're talking about a 600hp Camaro :eek: . Now watch the Mustang try to beat that...

-OR-

just stay stock and use the Camaro's superior handleing to whoop the itty-bitty S/C Mustang...

Stop Talking.

The Mustang GT has NEVER EVER had a supercharger.
The Mustang GT is a 4.6L not a 4.8
You can never expect a 50% increase in power from just a supercharger....maybe a SC, tune, full exhaust, intake, and some cams.

You sure do talk alot of shit for someone who has no clue what engine will be in the New Camaro OR the new Mustang....

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Stig

Stop Talking.

The Mustang GT has NEVER EVER had a supercharger.
The Mustang GT is a 4.6L not a 4.8
You can never expect a 50% increase in power from just a supercharger....maybe a SC, tune, full exhaust, intake, and some cams.

You sure do talk alot of shit for someone who has no clue what engine will be in the New Camaro OR the new Mustang....

:eek:Oooh. Okay now I have to respond...thinking...thinking, hang on this has to be good....gotta number these too...Right, got it:



Issue #1

The Mustang GT has NEVER EVER had a supercharger.

I never said the Mustang GT had a supercharger, If you take the few seconds needed to read back a few posts, I was advocating that it didn't! I was said what I said in response to a post about an Aftermarket supercharger. Again...reading back a few posts helps


Issue #2

The Mustang GT is a 4.6L not a 4.8

Thank you for pointing that out. Since .2 Liters is a legitimant amount to argue over, I bow in submission, a slip of my finger, apparently. I like to keep tabs on pitiful rivals, so I knew it had a 4.6...Very, Very sorry, sir.

Issue #3

You can never expect a 50% increase in power from just a supercharger....maybe a SC, tune, full exhaust, intake, and some cams.

As I am more comfortable speaking about centrifugals, I will rebut this claim. I have seen many centrifugal supercharger systems - With Very minimal tuning - give a 50% gain in power...on average (again reading helps). This being the case for many different cars, I have provided a few links .

Whipple (twin-screw) on a Mustang? What? Where did he find that....
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1208

Power from tip in to redline, the new Whipple SC system makes over 40% power across the entire rpm range while maintaining industry leading drive-ability. The incredible HO system produces nearly 75% more power across the entire rpm range!

Vortech Centrifugal on another Mustang, damn Where Am I finding this stuff?http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...=94&cat_key=11

High Output Supercharging Systems:
The increased boost level, high output supercharger system, features a fully integrated air to water aftercooler approach to charge cooling. This system will increase horsepower from 300 to 462 and will increase torque from 320 lb./ft. to 419 lb./ft.

difference in HP: 162...(162/300) * 100 = 54%...whaaaa?

Vortech centrifugal on a 1998-2002 Camaro:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=107&cat_key=12

High Output Supercharging Systems:
The increased boost level, high output supercharger system, features a fully integrated air to water charge cooler. This system will increase horsepower from 320 to 470 and will increase torque from 345 lb./ft. to 462 lb./ft.

Although it's only a 46%+/- increase...it still factors into the average

ProCharger on yet another Mustang GT:
http://www.procharger.com/gallery/sh...ket=1&idx=1315

Naturally Aspirated RWHP:
200

ProCharged RWHP:
657

I know that the N/A RWHP may be a little under-reported...but, it's a Mustang

And Finally (my fingers are getting tired of all this supporting-info-typing)
A Prochaged 2001 Camaro:
http://www.procharger.com/gallery/showtemp.php?market=2&idx=1137

Naturally Aspirated RWHP:
305 RWHP, 325 RWTQ

ProCharged RWHP:
458 RWHP, 415 RWTQ

and an exact 50% increase in RWHP...


Now, I'd hate to think that all of these companys are lying about their numbers...


Issue #4

You sure do talk alot of shit for someone who has no clue what engine will be in the New Camaro OR the new Mustang....

How does my shit look now? And as for me talking shit when I have "no idea what engine is going into the Camaro or Mustang"...Do you? I don't think anybody here is 100% sure which engine the Camaro is getting. And there are others who've said much worse than I have.

Next time, pick on somebody who hasn't done their homework. I NEVER say anything unless I have proof to back it up with. And I'm very proud of that.

BTW...my previous post, NOT this one, was a joke.....
So, to put it simply...I fully disagree with you Stig.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Stig

The Mustang GT is a 4.6L not a 4.8

and my inline-6 in my 78 is a 4.8L...
its amazing how stangers dont believe they got beat by a straight 6... till I tell them my engine is bigger than theirs.




btw Dragoneye, keep up the good work

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

...



btw Dragoneye, keep up the good work

I just get really ticked when people question my credibility...
I didn't mean for it to be an attack in any way...I'm not like that.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I just get really ticked when people question my credibility...
I didn't mean for it to be an attack in any way...I'm not like that.

no, no, of course not jk, i know the feeling. it happens everywhere tho, one person gets bugged about the majority of the forum supporting what their forum was created for and when you miss one little thing, its all (read=flame war) oh, well this is getting so back to the camaro

[TAG UR IT]

Bravo, Dragon!

By this, I mean the ability to back up your statement.

[Rock36]

Some of my thoughts on the matter.

First Topic:

I'm not sure which 4.6L Mustangs that were being beaten with that straight six 4.8L engine from 1978. I don't see it being stronger than any of the smaller modular 4.6L V8 engines from 1996 to present even if it has more displacement. Take the new M3, that V8 is a paltry 4.0L and will destroy both engines.

I would imagine that straight six 4.8L from almost 30 years ago has heads that don't flow very well, a conservative cam, and is still carburated. Also, since it is the an engine from the late 70s it probably also has a really low compression ratio which also robs performance from the engine despite its larger displacement.

I couldn't actually find stats on the 4.8L engine mentioned (there was only a 4.1L that I can find) but the highest output from a 1978 Camaro was the LM1 5.7L engine that produced 185hp@4000 and 280ft-lbs of torque @ 2400 rpm. The 4.1 L inline 6 from that year only makes 110hp, so I would guess a 4.8L I6 would be somewhere between 110 and 185hp.

http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camar...pecs&year=1978



Secondly I'm support Dragon and I will back up some of his claims:

A 50% gain from a supercharger isn't unreasonable at. Many quote the "low" 400 bhp from this or that supercharger on the new S197 Mustang GT. Keep in mind those are the most conservative outputs of the superchargers for the current Mustang usually kept within limits to preserve the warranty.

Below is a link for a very safe 425 RWHP supercharger for the current Mustang GT followed by one for 450 RWHP. Both of these outputs at the flywheel would be near, at, or over 500 bhp.

http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product_...roducts_id=212
http://www.teamjdm.com/shop/product_...roducts_id=213

Or here is another one from Kenne Bell. 401 RWHP on only 5 PSI of boost and on a non-intercooled set up. For an 8 PSI intercooled you have 445 RWHP.

http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...gt05-06_3v.htm

The reality is that most supercharged Mustangs will be putting down well over 400 bhp usually they are over 400rwhp as I just showed, and as Dragon already mentioned.


About Superchargers in General:

Also roots and twin screw designs are also favored from the factories because of their low end torque production. Factory engines spend most of their operating lives below 3500rpm. Even at 3500rpm a centrifugal supercharger is just really starting to build power. The roots, on the other hand, is very responsive and the torque is immediate throughout the power band. So you can feel the torque when you are cruising around in 5th gear at 1900 rpm and decide to make a passing maneuver on a normal city street or freeway.


Final Point:

Many people prefer large displacement N/A engines over force induced smaller engines for many reasons, but in the end it is just preference and personal style.

It is true that in the end there is no replacement for displacement, but in the terms of practicality it doesn't matter. Unless you plan on building a 1000+ hp drag race monster, you don't really need massive displacement engines. You can be faster than 95% of street driven vehicles with just a turboed 2.5L from a mildly modified STi....if that is your thing....it isn't mine, but I am just making a point.


Yes I know I am talking about a Mustang on a Camaro forum, but the title of this thread is "Mustang prepares for its rivals"

Good day to all.

[Stig]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

:eek:Oooh. Okay now I have to respond...thinking...thinking, hang on this has to be good....gotta number these too...Right, got it:

I will agree, i was looking at the wrong post, sorry.

Yes .2 Liters is argueable, is the LS2 a 5.8...NO, i mean, you were wrong werent you? Are you just trying to blow smoke to avoid the fact that you wrote the wrong information?

Once again, take your own advice and read my post, i specifically said YOU CANT GET THAT MUCH FROM JUST A SUPERCHARGER. Here is the list of things that come with that package:

Instant boost, zero lag time for incredible throttle response
Revolutionary W140ax Whipple twin-screw supercharger
Massive 5” thick aluminum intercooler for superior cooling
Oversized Fluidyne heat exchanger for increased cooling capacity
Ford GT 38lb/hr fuel injectors
0 degree Ford Racing spark plugs
Twin screw supercharger is the most efficient SC on the market
Exclusive TRUE cold air intake system with 9” S&B “True-flow” filter
Self contained oil system, no tapping oil pan
Industry leading 95mm mass air flow meter
Exclusive cold air intake system with 9” S&B “True Flow” filter
Ford Racing flash programmer for industry leading power, reliability and durability
Zero tuning required, all pre-set
Available non-intercooled and intercooled
Available for manual and auto transmission equipped vehicle

Now, doesnt that sound like what i said, Even though i think a SC Cam would ultimatley yield the power that they are claiming, they still have ALOT of other parts on there to help achieve that power. Not to mention, i dont care what thier website says, in the real world, and since you have so much wisdom, i would assume you should know that people hardly obtain HP numbers listed in advertising.

Also, i should point out, i was talking about RWHP, i didnt make that clear, but to me, Flywheel horsepower is for braggers who just want to talk, wheel horsepower is the only true measure of your cars obtainable performance.

How does your shit look??? Give me a break, shut up, and NO, nobody knows but you sure seem to act like you do. I wasnt ragging on you that much dude, maybe next time just dont get so butthurt.

I disagree as I have just shown you, but you can be proud of it all you want.

Thats all im gonna say

[Mr. Wyndham]

oh, Damn. Another Mistake...one out of them All...shit. I feel like a real Tard. :eek: You've got to be kidding, right?

I don't care how much, or how little you think you were ragging on me.It came out awfully agressive, or is that just me? I DON'T like being told to "Stop Talking", or to "Shut up". Or that I have no idea what's being put in the Cars, yet I talk. That really pisses me off - yet I thought I did a good job not attacking, or calling anyone names.

I'm sorry that I typed my engine volume numbers wrong. of course - that's the last mistake I'll ever make!

Okay, the whipple needs more than just the blower - So what?!?! The rest of my argument steps all over that lack of evidence! Whatever - be picky, it provides some comic relief - cause I know you can't be serious about all this.

Unfortunately for you, this is a Camaro Forum. Since none of us have any idea what's going where, Our job is to talk...Our job is also to have some fun, So I made a crack about the Mustang - one of hundreds. I'm sorry what I said (which was a rag on the Mustang, btw - or couldn't you tell that?) was only 99.8 % true. I'll have to do better next time.

I am proud - as everybody who posted backed me up to some degree except you. Eh, I can survive without your support, I guess.

I'm Done, I hate arguing with people who look for arguments.


Back on topic, I don't think there's anything that can prepare the Mustang for the Camaro's release...I wonder how many Mustangs will be traded in to the Chevy dealerships?

[acscamarochick06]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

oh, Damn. Another Mistake...one out of them All...shit. I feel like a real Tard. :eek: You've got to be kidding, right?

I don't care how much, or how little you think you were ragging on me.It came out awfully agressive, or is that just me? I DON'T like being told to "Stop Talking", or to "Shut up". Or that I have no idea what's being put in the Cars, yet I talk. That really pisses me off - yet I thought I did a good job not attacking, or calling anyone names.

I'm sorry that I typed my engine volume numbers wrong. of course - that's the last mistake I'll ever make!

Okay, the whipple needs more than just the blower - So what?!?! The rest of my argument steps all over that lack of evidence! Whatever - be picky, it provides some comic relief - cause I know you can't be serious about all this.

Unfortunately for you, this is a Camaro Forum. Since none of us have any idea what's going where, Our job is to talk...Our job is also to have some fun, So I made a crack about the Mustang - one of hundreds. I'm sorry what I said (which was a rag on the Mustang, btw - or couldn't you tell that?) was only 99.8 % true. I'll have to do better next time.

I am proud - as everybody who posted backed me up to some degree except you. Eh, I can survive without your support, I guess.

I'm Done, I hate arguing with people who look for arguments.

Oh, and just for old times sake lol: :tweetz: