big block vs small block

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by SSRich

agreed lol

then why do most old fords or foxbody mustang have chevy engines in them bc u can get more hp and torque out of a chevy.

hardly


It's simple. it's because BBF parts aren't as cheap as BBC parts. What makes you think you can get more hp and torque out of a chevy? Take a production BBF block vs. a production BBC block, which do you think is capable of more power? you might be surprised.

And I will say, I have NEVER seen a foxbody with a BBC. BBF are popular conversions with the foxbody crowd (which i was a part of).

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by firengnred

for a good read on BBC vs BBF you can go here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kaneofthe...mics/id15.html

Check out the comparisons, The BBF actually makes the BBC look a lil underengineered/flimsy.

[ViperTomcat]

Originally Posted by SSRich

agreed lol

then why do most old fords or foxbody mustang have chevy engines in them bc u can get more hp and torque out of a chevy.

Actually...the two last modded Fox body Mustangs I have seen had a 427 SOHC and a 351 Windsor respectively..

So....yeah, you're wrong.

[chrisx66]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

hardly


It's simple. it's because BBF parts aren't as cheap as BBC parts. What makes you think you can get more hp and torque out of a chevy? Take a production BBF block vs. a production BBC block, which do you think is capable of more power? you might be surprised.

And I will say, I have NEVER seen a foxbody with a BBC. BBF are popular conversions with the foxbody crowd (which i was a part of).

A BBC will make more power all day long, compare a 460 to a 454.

BBF only two bolt mains and cast crank, weak oiling system, weak cylinder head flow especially the exhaust port, non adjustable aluminum fulcrum valve train. Except the cobra jet and 10 head bolts per side.

BBC 2 and 4 bolt mains, better cylinder heads, forged and cast cranks, 16 head bolts per side, better oiling system, adjustable valve train.

I used to race the PSCA until i moved from California to Texas, over 50% of the Mustangs are Chevy powered.

[chrisx66]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

BBC is hard to beat.... unless you have a BBF!



This is the built 533 ci BBF I have in my 68 Galaxie. 502 rwhp / 545 rwtq on a mustang dyno through a 9" rear end and a C6 transmission. The HP was still going up at 5600 rpm when the tuner let go. The cam and bottom end will go to 6500-6600 rpm no problem.

My avatar is a pic of my 418 ci small block 66 Chevelle. I might take it up to Vegas for the street car super nationals in November, bring that Ford out and we can line em up.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by chrisx66

A BBC will make more power all day long, compare a 460 to a 454.

BBF only two bolt mains and cast crank, weak oiling system, weak cylinder head flow especially the exhaust port, non adjustable aluminum fulcrum valve train. Except the cobra jet and 10 head bolts per side.

BBC 2 and 4 bolt mains, better cylinder heads, forged and cast cranks, 16 head bolts per side, better oiling system, adjustable valve train.

I used to race the PSCA until i moved from California to Texas, over 50% of the Mustangs are Chevy powered.

BBF is available in 4 bolt mains as well. The stock 2 bolt set up (using stock bolts,not even studs) has been proven to handle well over 800hp (some pushing over 1500hp) without a breaking a sweat. But you can also 4 bolt the stock 2 bolt block if you want. Same with the cranks (theyre nodular iron BTW), theyre larger and can handle immense power (850hp is not a problem with some well over 1000hp) and a STOCK CRANK can be offset ground to produce over 500cubic inches....thats with a stock crank. Look it up.
Also, the BBC has 16 head bolts because it NEEDS them, theyre wimpy 7/16 in size and cant be torqued to anything respectable (and watch out for the rusted bolts that go into your water jackets!!LOL) 75lbs?!?!LOL The BBF's are torqued closer to 150. Did you even read the link i posted that actually compares them???Most BBC guys have to scramble and look for their "tall deck" blocks to compete, or use aftermarket blocks and use no actual GM parts!
The 460 was never really used in a performance applications (which is why the stock induction system wasnt developed from the factory) but was engineered to industrial specs and can withstand almost anything you can throw at it. Youve seen the new Jon Kaase hemi heads??People have achieved an easy 900+hp out of the box with those!

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by chrisx66

My avatar is a pic of my 418 ci small block 66 Chevelle. I might take it up to Vegas for the street car super nationals in November, bring that Ford out and we can line em up.

funny i always see strung out small blocks all over the internet that feel they have something to prove against Big Block cars but never see them on the street, driven like a car should be, hmmm what an anomoly oh well anyways doesnt matter, my car isnt a stripped down race car. + i doubt theyll let me line em up without a cage or roll bar. It puts down decent power for unported entry level street heads (Trick Flow Streets), but really is just docile and scratching the surface as far as BBF's and potential HP go. But if i WERE to go to Vegas to race it, id actually get there by driving it there since its an actual street car thats driven regularly........

[2010 SSRS]

BBC Monster

[chrisx66]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

funny i always see strung out small blocks all over the internet that feel they have something to prove against Big Block cars but never see them on the street, driven like a car should be, hmmm what an anomoly oh well anyways doesnt matter, my car isnt a stripped down race car. + i doubt theyll let me line em up without a cage or roll bar. It puts down decent power for unported entry level street heads (Trick Flow Streets), but really is just docile and scratching the surface as far as BBF's and potential HP go. But if i WERE to go to Vegas to race it, id actually get there by driving it there since its an actual street car thats driven regularly........

Well my 66 has full interior, stock suspension, and is street legal,but i'll bring my street driven 70 SS Chevelle pump gas 481 with factory iron oval port heads if your more comfortable with that, it makes a little more power than your aluminum head stroked 533, if your up for the challenge.

[chrisx66]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

BBF is available in 4 bolt mains as well. The stock 2 bolt set up (using stock bolts,not even studs) has been proven to handle well over 800hp (some pushing over 1500hp) without a breaking a sweat. But you can also 4 bolt the stock 2 bolt block if you want. Same with the cranks (theyre nodular iron BTW), theyre larger and can handle immense power (850hp is not a problem with some well over 1000hp) and a STOCK CRANK can be offset ground to produce over 500cubic inches....thats with a stock crank. Look it up.
Also, the BBC has 16 head bolts because it NEEDS them, theyre wimpy 7/16 in size and cant be torqued to anything respectable (and watch out for the rusted bolts that go into your water jackets!!LOL) 75lbs?!?!LOL The BBF's are torqued closer to 150. Did you even read the link i posted that actually compares them???Most BBC guys have to scramble and look for their "tall deck" blocks to compete, or use aftermarket blocks and use no actual GM parts!
The 460 was never really used in a performance applications (which is why the stock induction system wasnt developed from the factory) but was engineered to industrial specs and can withstand almost anything you can throw at it. Youve seen the new Jon Kaase hemi heads??People have achieved an easy 900+hp out of the box with those!

I dont need to look at your Ford website comparing a BBC to a BBF, i'll take 16 head bolts on each head compared to 10. Larger cranks dont mean jack, just more oil required to keep the bearings lubed, when they offset ground the Ford cranks what rod journal and rod do they use? (BBC of course) thats the only good thing in those stroker fords. You can make over 500 inches with a 9.800 deck BBC. I've built alot of Ford motors in fact my day job for the last 22 years has been a master tech for a Ford dealer.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by chrisx66

I dont need to look at your Ford website comparing a BBC to a BBF, i'll take 16 head bolts on each head compared to 10. Larger cranks dont mean jack, just more oil required to keep the bearings lubed, when they offset ground the Ford cranks what rod journal and rod do they use? (BBC of course) thats the only good thing in those stroker fords. You can make over 500 inches with a 9.800 deck BBC. I've built alot of Ford motors in fact my day job for the last 22 years has been a master tech for a Ford dealer.

Ill take 10 well placed and much stronger head bolts over 16 small bolts with most located on the deck any day (and some in the water jacket!) , but to each his own i guess. Have fun distorting your deck due to the ill concieved design of where chevy decided to put your head bolts.

Larger cranks do help the ford. Just for quick reference look at SCATS 9000 series (cheap/cast) crank for the 460,it has an HP rating of 900hp and the FORGED 454 crank (over twice as much $$$$) is only rated at 100more hp. The cast 454 can only take 700hp. according to them.

And no, we dont run crummy Chevy rods, we run aftermarket rods that are the most common in size which happen to be 2.2in at the journal which the BBC guys run as well. I run SCAT rods, last i checked they aint GM.

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by chrisx66

Well my 66 has full interior, stock suspension, and is street legal,but i'll bring my street driven 70 SS Chevelle pump gas 481 with factory iron oval port heads if your more comfortable with that, it makes a little more power than your aluminum head stroked 533, if your up for the challenge.

your Chevelle sounds like a better match for my car. But still my Gal wont be track ready till next year. If im lucky maybe this year.

[chrisx66]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

Ill take 10 well placed and much stronger head bolts over 16 small bolts with most located on the deck any day (and some in the water jacket!) , but to each his own i guess. Have fun distorting your deck due to the ill concieved design of where chevy decided to put your head bolts.

Larger cranks do help the ford. Just for quick reference look at SCATS 9000 series (cheap/cast) crank for the 460,it has an HP rating of 900hp and the FORGED 454 crank (over twice as much $$$$) is only rated at 100more hp. The cast 454 can only take 700hp. according to them.

And no, we dont run crummy Chevy rods, we run aftermarket rods that are the most common in size which happen to be 2.2in at the journal which the BBC guys run as well. I run SCAT rods, last i checked they aint GM.

Well my deck isn"t distorted yet and the blocks 40 years old, there's 5 bolts around each cylinder with provisions for 2 more in the valley on my block and alot of early performance blocks. Good luck running 900 horsepower through that chinese Scat crank, well see how long it last, those Scat rods your running are also chinese forgings machined at Scats shop . All those aftermarket rods are based of BBC rod journals and rod width ( there are no Scat or Eagle BBF rods just BBC rods you grind your Ford crank to fit)

[speedster]

Another pretty decent BBC - 540
1108 hp on 91 octane
Much higher on C-16