Perceptions Die... OK Say Again Y Foreign is Better - Page 22

Cmicasa the Great XvX · 10-27-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhawk

I always 'love' the Buicks are for old people. We have 2. A 72 Skylark COnvertible and a 98 Regal GS. I love both. The Regal delivers the exact same things as the Grand Prix GTP but in a nicer package (at least to me). Both of my kids prefer it to the GPs and my 11 year old daughter has it on her list of cars she wants (next to GTO, Corvette, and Camaro).

Pontiac would have needed a complete change of line-up to have a successful brand. The only way to use any of their current line up (in my opinion) would be to base it all off the G8. Let them have sedan, coupe, wagon, and El Camino type. Put strong engines in all of hem and stick tightly to high performance. No, econoboxes, no SUVs. Let Chevy and GMC carry that load. The problem is that Chevy can carry any performance idea that Pontiac could. The SS lineup is a much cheaper way to deliver performance.

Let's face the grim reality. GM needed to simplify things and going down to 4 US brands meant cutting a longstanding line. Buick makes more sense.

Not to mention that despite Chevy's prominence due to price.. Buick will always be.. Billy Durant's "First."

Cmicasa the Great XvX · 10-27-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Please, take it easy on the bold. Overuse takes away from trying to emphasize things. ITS NOT AS BAD AS TYPING WITH CAPS LOCK ON BUT ITS STILL NOT NEEDED.

I have always typed in BOLD...:( My computer is messed up and I can only type in bold. Anytime U see me type in non-bold is when I'm on someone else's PC.

Besides... when I need to emphasize something I underline it

HeatherR · 10-27-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Something tells me that when the Regal comes out the Saab issue will be moot... as the Chevy Malibu and Equinox better both of Saturn's best sellers (Vue and Aura) hands down. THe only missing mark in Saturn's line up that I will truly miss is the Sky... or as I usually call it.. the "Baby Corvette"

I cannot see why GM doesn't introduce the Riviera in Coupe and Convertible to replace that hole in the line-up. Fact is that a if Buick is truly going to compete with Lexus they will need a RWD or preferably... AWD entry level coupe to head off teh IS250/350

The Malibu and Equinox are far better than the Vue and Aura and even they were better than the Torrent and G6

The Buicks that are coming out or in the pipeline are wonderful, so I agree with you there.

Also, the Sky/Solstice hole would be nice to fill (Regal would be great), but they need to figure out a plan that turns a profit...they lost money on every Sky/Solstice they sold...but I love mine and will keep it forever!

Again, the hole I have in the line up is a lack of manuals, but I know I am a minority there.

So, how much do you love your CTS-V?

Cmicasa the Great XvX · 10-27-2009, 08:32 PM

Posted: 2:43 p.m. Oct. 27, 2009

THE LIBBY LETTER

Chevrolet prices showing new signs of strength for American brand

By TOM LIBBY

FREE PRESS AUTO INDUSTRY BLOGGER

While the market share declines of the mainstream domestic brands during the past decade have been well documented, the price declines of these brands relative to their Asian competitors have received less attention.

As the domestics pushed product vehicles through their dealer networks, allowed models to languish on the market longer than their Asian competitors, and suffered from perceived — and frequently actual — inferior quality, they were forced to ratchet up incentives to lower prices to turn inventory.

However, there is recent evidence that at least one full-line domestic marquee – Chevrolet - has been able to price closer to its Asian competition, a needed improvement if GM is to fund new product programs and compete effectively over the long run.

The average actual transaction price of Chevrolet products in four key segments (segments in which Chevrolet, Ford, Honda and Toyota all have entries) have been higher than that of three mainstream competitors, based on transaction data from Edmunds.com for the period September 9 – October 7.

While Chevrolet’s average price was only about $240 above that of Honda, it was more than $1,700 above that of Toyota, due to Chevrolet’s higher prices in three of the four segments.

The Equinox is enjoying a $1,000-plus price premium over the Toyota RAV4, and while one could argue this is because the Equinox has just been re-designed, one could respond that during virtually any time period there will be re-designed models on the market.

If another time period had been used, a re-designed Toyota product may have been hitting the marketplace.

Further, such a contention is countered by the fact that the Cobalt, long in the tooth and about to be replaced by the Cruze, is selling at a higher price than the Corolla.

One could also argue that Chevrolet’s prices are artificially high because of the inventory shortages resulting from the success of the “Cash for Clunkers” program, but in fact data from that program consistently indicate that the Asians enjoyed more success than the domestics and therefore would have had even lower inventories relative to pre-Clunkers levels.

The parity of Chevrolet and Toyota pricing suggests – at least in these four segments - the consumer perceives Chevrolet products to be of similar value to those of Toyota, a finding we have not seen for years. -

http://www.freep.com/article/2009102...American-brand

Cmicasa the Great XvX · 10-27-2009, 08:34 PM

I HATE TOYOTA... let's get that straight... only Hyundai comes close in my hate for a car maker.

Good job GM... I told U that U should did this Chapt 11 5 years ago.

Cmicasa the Great XvX · 10-27-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherR

The Malibu and Equinox are far better than the Vue and Aura and even they were better than the Torrent and G6

The Buicks that are coming out or in the pipeline are wonderful, so I agree with you there.

So far what we kno is that Buick will have by the end of 2010: The Regal, including a GS model, The Lacrosse, the Astra (or whatever), the Enclave, and a possible smaller CUV possibly based on the Theta-Epsilon from the SRX. Which is cool to since I believe that since the Saab brand has been sold... the intro of the 9-4x will either not happen.. or be extremely limited

Quote:

Also, the Sky/Solstice hole would be nice to fill (Regal would be great), but they need to figure out a plan that turns a profit...they lost money on every Sky/Solstice they sold...but I love mine and will keep it forever!

U should... keep it forever. It will be a classic no doubt.

The Solstic/Sky should have been done... and I kno people will hate me for saying it... on DELTA... along with the Cobalt SS. It should have been FWD and HI-PO ONLY with the 260HP/260LB set up. It should have sold for no less than $2500 above the Cobalt SS. This would have made the cars a supplemental profit maker for the entire line, which already included the Cobalt, HHR, G5, and Astra.

Quote:

Again, the hole I have in the line up is a lack of manuals, but I know I am a minority there.

I am hearing that the Regal will have a Manual

Quote:

So, how much do you love your CTS-V?

I absolutely LOVE IT... THe only thing that would make it better would be if it had a button on the dash that said "Sunshine.. No Rain." because I will only drive it and my Vette on dry days

FenwickHockey65 · 10-27-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

So far what we kno is that Buick will have by the end of 2010: The Regal, including a GS model, The Lacrosse, the Astra (or whatever), the Enclave, and a possible smaller CUV possibly based on the Theta-Epsilon from the SRX. Which is cool to since I believe that since the Saab brand has been sold... the intro of the 9-4x will either not happen.. or be extremely limited

She knows. Probably more than we do.

Figure out who on this site is from GM or related to GM and you get a cookie.

MikesZ · 10-27-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatherR

I have always driven manual cars. Had BMWs (Dad's business) until I married a GM guy. Since then I have had a G6 coupe (one of the 1% manuals prior to cancellation of manual), a Saab and a Solstice. My Saab is to be replaced and I am having a hard time making a decision...I am tempted to replace it with another Saab as it still technically qualifies as a GM product, however, I am afraid of resale. That leaves me with going up to a CTS or getting a Camaro as a daily driver (2 door not preferred for DD). I don't blame GM for not making more cars available with manual-most people don't want them. I am 2 months away from turning in the Saab and I change my mind every day!

To answer your question...If I were to switch from the Saab to the most comparable product available (and I was not hung up on having a manual) I would go to a Chevy Malibu LTZ...Very nice car and other than xenon headlights offers everything my Saab did and a few upgrades.

Man, those Alpha coupes can't come fast enough. Can't wait to see the ATS coupe.

HeatherR · 10-27-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikesZ

Man, those Alpha coupes can't come fast enough. Can't wait to see the ATS coupe.

That would be great in the next 60 days! A great option in future

HeatherR · 10-27-2009, 10:09 PM

I absolutely LOVE IT... THe only thing that would make it better would be if it had a button on the dash that said "Sunshine.. No Rain." because I will only drive it and my Vette on dry days[/QUOTE]

If you figure out that button let me know! We are the same...no Vettes or Solstice in the rain or snow. I only have 1400 miles on the Solstice in a year! Doesn't help that it sat in the garage in MI and I spent most of my time last year in Canada...

*Mr. Wyndham* · 10-27-2009, 10:42 PM

This is what they've been working towards for years. Perceived Value (whether real or fake), directly correlates to the amount of money a person is willing to spend on something. Apparently, on average, people are beginning to think more highly of a Chevy than a Toyota...Stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it, "Company T"!!

Keep this up, and that #1 title will be yours again for another 77 years, GM!

EDIT: Oh, and for all the bashing I do over dumba$$ auto articles, I would like to thank Tom Libby, and the DFP for printing this article!!! We need more of it!

Angrybird 12 · 10-28-2009, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Something tells me that when the Regal comes out the Saab issue will be moot... as the Chevy Malibu and Equinox better both of Saturn's best sellers (Vue and Aura) hands down. THe only missing mark in Saturn's line up that I will truly miss is the Sky... or as I usually call it.. the "Baby Corvette"

The only reason that the Malibu and Equinox are better than the Vue or Aura is they had a couple more years development time for improvements...Basically they are the same vehicles.. I did like the Aura's styling much better than the Malibu on the outside, but I like the Malibu's Interior better..And both of the Saturns were much better than the Previous versions of either Chevy (as i said, they still sold for a couple years after the new Vue and Aura were available).... Unfortunately I don't like the styling of any of Chevy's new front ends, except for the Camaro and Vette...

*DGthe3* · 10-28-2009, 09:26 AM

Above all else, this is what GM needs to be profitable. Everything else is just a way to achieve this.

Cmicasa the Great XvX · 10-28-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

The only reason that the Malibu and Equinox are better than the Vue or Aura is they had a couple more years development time for improvements...Basically they are the same vehicles.. I did like the Aura's styling much better than the Malibu on the outside, but I like the Malibu's Interior better..And both of the Saturns were much better than the Previous versions of either Chevy (as i said, they still sold for a couple years after the new Vue and Aura were available).... Unfortunately I don't like the styling of any of Chevy's new front ends, except for the Camaro and Vette...

Development time???

Is that what we call it??:(

I call it GM FINALLY realizing that the customer wanted MORE than just Adequate.

One of the most evident of this theory is the PREVIOUS Malibu. I remember reading somewhere a GM exec said the premise behind the last Malibu (2002-2007) was "Basic transportation.... an A to B car." That that is what the average customer wanted.

I call BULLSH*T!!! The G6 proved that. Customer's went to car initially because it was a beautiful styling exercise, and despite the "Pontiac Interior" theme... was just as good as the 2007 Camry's when it came out

10-27-2009, 08:32 PM	#298
Cmicasa the Great XvX Account Suspended Drives: 07Taho, 11CamaroRS, 12CTSV Coupe Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: MD Posts: 705	IN YO Sheepen FACE: Chevy Now Transacts Above Toyota, Honda and Ford in 4 Key Areas Posted: 2:43 p.m. Oct. 27, 2009 THE LIBBY LETTER *Chevrolet prices showing new signs of strength for American brand* By TOM LIBBY FREE PRESS AUTO INDUSTRY BLOGGER While the market share declines of the mainstream domestic brands during the past decade have been well documented, the price declines of these brands relative to their Asian competitors have received less attention. As the domestics pushed product vehicles through their dealer networks, allowed models to languish on the market longer than their Asian competitors, and suffered from perceived — and frequently actual — inferior quality, they were forced to ratchet up incentives to lower prices to turn inventory. However, there is recent evidence that at least one full-line domestic marquee – Chevrolet - has been able to price closer to its Asian competition, a needed improvement if GM is to fund new product programs and compete effectively over the long run. The average actual transaction price of Chevrolet products in four key segments (segments in which Chevrolet, Ford, Honda and Toyota all have entries) have been higher than that of three mainstream competitors, based on transaction data from Edmunds.com for the period September 9 – October 7. While Chevrolet’s average price was only about $240 above that of Honda, it was more than $1,700 above that of Toyota, due to Chevrolet’s higher prices in three of the four segments. The Equinox is enjoying a $1,000-plus price premium over the Toyota RAV4, and while one could argue this is because the Equinox has just been re-designed, one could respond that during virtually any time period there will be re-designed models on the market. If another time period had been used, a re-designed Toyota product may have been hitting the marketplace. Further, such a contention is countered by the fact that the Cobalt, long in the tooth and about to be replaced by the Cruze, is selling at a higher price than the Corolla. One could also argue that Chevrolet’s prices are artificially high because of the inventory shortages resulting from the success of the “Cash for Clunkers” program, but in fact data from that program consistently indicate that the Asians enjoyed more success than the domestics and therefore would have had even lower inventories relative to pre-Clunkers levels. The parity of Chevrolet and Toyota pricing suggests – at least in these four segments - the consumer perceives Chevrolet products to be of similar value to those of Toyota, a finding we have not seen for years. - http://www.freep.com/article/2009102...American-brand

10-27-2009, 10:42 PM	#305
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,873 View My Garage	This is what they've been working towards for years. Perceived Value (whether real or fake), directly correlates to the amount of money a person is willing to spend on something. Apparently, on average, people are beginning to think more highly of a Chevy than a Toyota...Stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it, "Company T"!! Keep this up, and that #1 title will be yours again for another 77 years, GM! EDIT: Oh, and for all the bashing I do over dumba$$ auto articles, I would like to thank Tom Libby, and the DFP for printing this article!!! We need more of it! __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

10-28-2009, 09:26 AM	#307
DGthe3 Moderator.ca Drives: 05 Grand Am GT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Niagara, Canada Posts: 25,366	Above all else, this is what GM needs to be profitable. Everything else is just a way to achieve this. __________________ Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them __________________ Originally Posted by FbodFather My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors...... ........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!! __________________ Camaro Fest sub-forum

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10-27-2009, 08:34 PM	#299
Cmicasa the Great XvX Account Suspended Drives: 07Taho, 11CamaroRS, 12CTSV Coupe Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: MD Posts: 705	I HATE TOYOTA... let's get that straight... only Hyundai comes close in my hate for a car maker. Good job GM... I told U that U should did this Chapt 11 5 years ago.

10-27-2009, 10:09 PM	#304
HeatherR Drives: 2009 CTS, 2008 Solstice GXP Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Keller, TX Posts: 769 View My Garage	I absolutely LOVE IT... THe only thing that would make it better would be if it had a button on the dash that said "Sunshine.. No Rain." because I will only drive it and my Vette on dry days[/QUOTE] If you figure out that button let me know! We are the same...no Vettes or Solstice in the rain or snow. I only have 1400 miles on the Solstice in a year! Doesn't help that it sat in the garage in MI and I spent most of my time last year in Canada...