[syr74]

Originally Posted by Congoman775

I understand your line of thinking.
and im glad you dont object to the mustang being a Chick Car

ROFL. I appreciate your enthusiasm. Personally, I wouldn't call the Mustang a 'chick car', but then I wouldn't call it a 'guy's car' either although I do think there are versions which lend themselves to both of those descriptors (GT500 is certainly more of a guy thing while the 'pink' versions throughout time obviously appeal more to the ladies) This goes back to the point I was trying to make above, I don't think the Mustang as a whole is limited in scope like most other cars have been and still are. IMO the car transcends those kinds of boundaries, and is in a way the modern fulfillment of the Model T promise for sporty 2+2's. It is truly the performance car for every man...and chick.

That said I get your point, and I actually would call the new Camaro a guys car. In other words I don't expect the new Camaro to hold much appeal for women, but then neither did the fourth gen. In fact, I think the closest the Camaro ever got to universal appeal, at least in terms of the sexes, was with the third gen model. I think the best comparison is to say that the current Mustang is a pony car in the purest sense while the new Camaro is more of a muscle-car, pony-car cross breed arguably slanting more toward the muscle side of the equation.

That said, this is the one respect where I truly worry about the new Camaro. Limiting appeal of the car so exclusively to men doesn't really seem like a good long term strategy to me and it certainly didn't work well for the fourth gen car...but then GM may know something I don't this go-round and they do claim to have fairly modest sales expectations which seems to be in line with a more niche oriented product.

Originally Posted by congoman

No. It wont be "MUCH LIGHTER"

it already breaches the scales at 3590lbs, give 100lbs for an engine, and 100 lbs for the sake of saftey... NOT COUNTING the 100's of lbs that will be added once ford gets around to developing a 21st century IRS, your already at 3790 which is basically 3800. think of it this way... The GT500 is going to have a lighter engine than the new GT's.

What would make you think that the GT500 uses or will use a lighter engine than the new GT? I think you may be confusing the upcoming 5.0L with the new Boss/Hurricane engine family which is completely unrelated. The 5.0L is a rather involved update of the existing modular engine family the 4.6L is currently a part of. Put simply, it is functionally a very different engine in several respects, but in terms of packaging and weight a 5.0L DOHC is very similar to what the old 4.6L DOHC engines were. (the 5.0L may be a bit lighter since Ford did believe early on that they could trim some fat from the cylinder heads but I wouldn't expect much) To put it simply, the aluminum 4.6L, SOHC, 3-valve V8 used in the current Mustang GT is nowhere near 100lb lighter than even an all aluminum 4.6L DOHC 4-valve (the difference isn't even 50lb for that matter). The GT500's 5.4L is a boat anchor comparatively speaking, and still would be even with an aluminum bloc.

As for safety upgrades, I think this has been blown a bit out of proportion. They aren't unexpected, they wont affect the revised S197 at all, and they probably wont hamper the GWRD model coming for 2012+ either. Ford already tests their cars for most of the new regulations, and I would be more than a little surprised if the Mustang couldn't meet the majority of them as is. As for the IRS setup, it could add significant weight, but the most likely candidate for the Mustang's IRS...a control blade setup....wouldn't and the design has gained a great deal of favor at Ford because of it's extremely light weight, overall effectiveness, and low cost.

To sum it up...the 2011 GT is going to be a ~3600lb car in base form, and likely wont gain much from there unless larger wheels or an auto tran are added because most major options appear to be going standard for 2010. I would think a fully loaded auto trans car will weight in at about 3750lb. Across the board I would say you are looking at a 300lb weight difference between the 2011 Camaro SS and the 2011 Mustang GT.

What will the GRWD-based 2010MY car weigh? That is still a matter for folks who read tea leaves. Ford has stated that they expect every model to lose at least 250lb during their next, major redesign with the goal being more than that....250lb is a minimum expectation. In other words, Ford expects a base, 6M, V8-powered, Mustang GT to weigh in at a maximum of ~3250lb when it transfers to the GRWD platform. Whether or not they can hit that goal is an issue I cannot comment on one way or another.

Originally Posted by congoman

. its 22hp, 45lbs of torque for less than a 100lbs difference between the two. If you dont think that matters, than your a good example of the people who will still make the mistake of buying a mooostang.

All cheer-leading aside there is absolutely no way the difference will be less than 200lb between the 2011 Mustang GT and Camaro SS, the numbers just don't support such a notion. In real world trim I think we are looking at more like 300lb, and potentially a little more than that. As for a 22hp, 45lb-ft of torque difference....do remember that 400hp and 360lb-ft of torque are minimum numbers. Output will be above that, we just don't know by how much. Either way power to weight numbers appear likely to be very close between these two.

I personally think the acceleration contest between the Camaro and the Mustang is going to get extremely interesting during the 2010CY, and while I appreciate loyalty and enthusiasm I think the GM faithful are doing themselves a disservice when they assume this is going to be the standard, n/a Mod vs LS scenario we've seen over the last decade and change. The fuel situation is different, the platforms are very different, and Ford's upcoming 5.0L V8 is very different.

Originally Posted by headpunter

Mustang owners are always a little hurt that the Camaro is always better.

In all seriousness, come 2011 I think we'll be hearing a lot about the Camaro's IRS from GM, but very little about how the SS model's acceleration compares to the Mustang GT. At the moment I think the numbers slant a little in the Mustang's favor, and I think the current fuel situation has put GM into a position where they can no longer simply solve the issue by throwing more cubes, larger ports, and/or a bigger cam at the LS series V8 even if the GT wasn't a problem. Can GM answer? Sure. Will it be as easy as it once was? No.

IMO the pony/muscle car wars are about to get very interesting again.