[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

I don't get it.. The shift points between the two cars are basically at same mph through the first 4 gears.. How is the powerband better in a car that makes less power across the rev range then? How does the Shelby require less shifting?

I'm talking about the usable area under the curve. The GT350R has an extra 2000 RPM to work with over the ZL1. Hell, where the HP and torque curves cross on the GT350...there is still another 3000 RPM of usable power. Remember, peaks aren't what you're looking for....it's area under the curve. The GT350 has over 350lbft of torque from 3500 rpm to over 6500 rpm and over 300 lbft all the way out to 8200 RPM.

Don't get me wrong, the Zl1 absolutely destroys the GT350 in peak and has a flat as hell torque curved. The GT350 just has more usable area (under the curve). This is what allows the GT350R to stay in gear longer. While the Zl1 is likely only using 2500-3000 rpm of it's powerband, the GT350R can use nearly 5000 RPM. Those all just happen to be up above 3500 RPM.

[ChefBorOzzy]

RPM is irrelevant. The car is making more power across its whole range than GT350 is across its own.. Whether it revs to 7,000 or 70, it's making power power in the range while also holding gears for as long.. You know, gear ratio and all?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

RPM is irrelevant. The car is making more power across its whole range than GT350 is across its own.. Whether it revs to 7,000 or 70, it's making power power in the range while also holding gears for as long.. You know, gear ratio and all?

What would be a valuable addition to this conversation is the mph limits of each car for each gear. I have the Z/28 (LS7) info, but not the Mustang. RPM does matter, but only if the CAR was built as a complete well-thought out package. The LS7 can pull harder for a shorter amount of time than the Voodoo engine, which pulls longer, but weaker. A powerful turbo-diesel with 1500 rpm of usable power could beat them both if it was geared properly.

If the gear ratios are matched appropriately to each engine, then it's close to a wash with one important caveat....The LS7, AND LT1 will be more rewarding to drive on the street than the Voodoo.

[ChefBorOzzy]

We're even talking about the LT4 here in which the ZL1 has pretty much the same shift points as GT350R with a boatload more power. I just can't wrap my head how in that case the Shelby had a better powerband because "it revs higher" and how it would require less shifting.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

We're even talking about the LT4 here in which the ZL1 has pretty much the same shift points as GT350R with a boatload more power. I just can't wrap my head how in that case the Shelby had a better powerband because "it revs higher" and how it would require less shifting.

Anybody have the gear ratios, tire information, and the final drive ratio for the GT350R? I have a spreadsheet already created that can do all the math and provide some real numbers....currently working on Fest attendance counts, and can't devote the time to the research.

Theoretically, if the ZL1 and the GT350R have identical gearing, then the voodoo engine can pull each gear out longer to higher RPMS, which may require less shifting on certain tracks. But although there may be an extra shift in the ZL1...the LT4 has almost double the useable torque and will therefore pull harder and faster, so it won't matter.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Transmission ratios (x:1) I=3.253, II=2.233, III=1.611, IV=1.243, V=1.0, VI=0.629 3.73

Tire size, front 305/30ZR19
Tire size, rear 315/30ZR19

This is from Edmunds so not sure it's correct..

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Which engine would you want to own on its 40th track day? After the warranty expires?

The Voodoo engine has so many problems as you can see on the Mustang6g site. Metal shavings in the oil for so many people. Some people are on their 3rd motor. Burning a quart of oil every 400-500 miles (mine did).

I predict that Ford will quit making the Voodoo engine and the GT500 will be the supercharged 5.2L cross-plane crank motor that Ford has now at 580+hp N/A.


http://www.fordracingbyspeedshopdire...saAuBsEALw_wcB

[hotlap]

From C&D

First Gear Ratio (:1) 2.66
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 1.82
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.30
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.00
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.77
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.50
Reverse Ratio (:1) 2.90
Clutch Size N/A in
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) 3.73

Front Tire Size P295/35ZR19
Rear Tire Size P305/35ZR19

http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mus...0-gt350r/specs

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by hotlap

From C&D

First Gear Ratio (:1) 2.66
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 1.82
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.30
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.00
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.77
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.50
Reverse Ratio (:1) 2.90
Clutch Size N/A in
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) 3.73

Front Tire Size P295/35ZR19
Rear Tire Size P305/35ZR19

http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mus...0-gt350r/specs

I saw that as well, but pretty sure those are the wrong tire sizes for the R so didn't give them the benefit for the gear ratios.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Transmission ratios (x:1) I=3.253, II=2.233, III=1.611, IV=1.243, V=1.0, VI=0.629 3.73

Tire size, front 305/30ZR19
Tire size, rear 315/30ZR19

This is from Edmunds so not sure it's correct..

Thanks for that!



What we can tell from this chart is that the ZL1 gearing takes advantage of it's torque to pull higher mph at 6500 rpm than the GT350R is capable of at 8200 rpm gear-for gear.

The GT350R lacks the torque necessary to achieve higher mph in each gear. So, TECHNICALLY....if you need to get to 110 mph at a certain point on a track, for example, the GT350R will require an extra shift, not the ZL1.

The sprint from 0-60 will be the same story...the GT350R will need to run out all 8200 rpm of first gear, then shift into second and reach ~6500 rpm to get there. ZL1 can just stay in first. Now, granted...the GT350R will likely rev up faster...but not dramatically.

Neither will ever reach top speed in 6th gear, so that's a non-point.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Those speeds look right for the 350R.. I watched an acceleration video and it was being shifted pretty much exactly at those speeds.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Anybody have the gear ratios, tire information, and the final drive ratio for the GT350R? I have a spreadsheet already created that can do all the math and provide some real numbers....currently working on Fest attendance counts, and can't devote the time to the research.

Theoretically, if the ZL1 and the GT350R have identical gearing, then the voodoo engine can pull each gear out longer to higher RPMS, which may require less shifting on certain tracks. But although there may be an extra shift in the ZL1...the LT4 has almost double the useable torque and will therefore pull harder and faster, so it won't matter.

Here are the two. TR6060 top pic the ZL1 and TR3160, bottom pic which should be the GT350

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

Those speeds look right for the 350R.. I watched an acceleration video and it was being shifted pretty much exactly at those speeds.

My chart is pretty accurate.

I also noticed while doing that....that Camaro Team was willing to sacrifice mpg in 6th gear to give the car a proper, useable ratio in the ZL1 1LE...while Ford decided to shoot for the EPA number in their track car, and created a useless 6th gear on track. Admittedly, few tracks will provide the opportunity to use that gear...but still....

Originally Posted by unavailablezl1

Here are the two. TR6060 top pic the ZL1 and TR3160, bottom pic which should be the GT350

Thanks, but there are multiple gearset options?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

I saw that as well, but pretty sure those are the wrong tire sizes for the R so didn't give them the benefit for the gear ratios.

Agree. I cut and pasted and then compared to yours and said wtf. It is all off