Wow the 335i is fast!

[DGthe3]

[Congoman775]

Kevin: i dont HATE the M3, nor do i think it is all that horrible. but it makes me sick to see it priced at 70k+ when the car is worth 50K.

its a great car, but the american cars are a better value. And they can compete with the BMW's when you really push the numbers.

and yes... i am greatly looking forward to the inevidable Chally SRT, vs. Camaro SS, Vs. Mustang GT(500?) comparison tests.

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by Congoman775

Kevin: i dont HATE the M3, nor do i think it is all that horrible. but it makes me sick to see it priced at 70k+ when the car is worth 50K.

its a great car, but the american cars are a better value. And they can compete with the BMW's when you really push the numbers.

and yes... i am greatly looking forward to the inevidable Chally SRT, vs. Camaro SS, Vs. Mustang GT(500?) comparison tests.

I dont hate it either, I just hate that they put a v8 into it and priced it rediculously.

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by kevin2323

I dont hate it either, I just hate that they put a v8 into it and priced it rediculously.

yea way too overpriced.


as for the V8... i dont see how thats bothersome...?

[kevin2323]

Originally Posted by Congoman775

yea way too overpriced.


as for the V8... i dont see how thats bothersome...?

your right I forgot it was a fairly small v8.

[DGthe3]

What I don't get about the V8 in the new M3 is that it is being hailed as being soo lightweight but its still heavier than an LS3. Its still a great engine, but I think there might be a little too much hype for it.

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

What I don't get about the V8 in the new M3 is that it is being hailed as being soo lightweight but its still heavier than an LS3. Its still a great engine, but I think there might be a little too much hype for it.

yea, but it isnt great because of weight , its because of all the self-calibrations it would be performing... i think its 4 million a second? that along with the fact that it gives more hp (because its a v8) and better gas millage than the V6 it traditionally had.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

What I don't get about the V8 in the new M3 is that it is being hailed as being soo lightweight but its still heavier than an LS3. Its still a great engine, but I think there might be a little too much hype for it.

I think this goes along with the perception that American brands don't have very high quality. A lot of people look at European luxury brands as symbols of unadulterated greatness, forgetting along the way that Chevrolet can produce equal performance with less costly maintenance and parts; also that Cadillac can produce the same performance and same luxury; and that Pontiac can beat the performance and interior space. Basically, GM can do BMW one better, and a lot of people overlook the reality for a name brand like BMW. It's good branding by BMW to make people think this way, but it isn't really the case anymore that German engineering is the only pinnacle of greatness.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Congoman775

yea, but it isnt great because of weight , its because of all the self-calibrations it would be performing... i think its 4 million a second? that along with the fact that it gives more hp (because its a v8) and better gas millage than the V6 it traditionally had.

I've never heard about the self calibration thing, mostly the light weight, high specific output, and super high redline. What sort of economy is it supposed to get in the M3?

But as impressive as it is, I think the LS3 is more impressive. More power, more torque, less cost, less weight. The weight and power differences are minimal, but the cost isn't (well, I assume that it will cost a bit more than $7000) and torque . . . not in the same league.

[Congoman775]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I've never heard about the self calibration thing, mostly the light weight, high specific output, and super high redline. What sort of economy is it supposed to get in the M3?

But as impressive as it is, I think the LS3 is more impressive. More power, more torque, less cost, less weight. The weight and power differences are minimal, but the cost isn't (well, I assume that it will cost a bit more than $7000) and torque . . . not in the same league.

well, and here comes the big difference between BMW and GM.



They sell to different markets.



Each engine is tuned to provide the optimal amount of satisfaction for those who the company feels would want to buy it. The BMW M3 was made on the Ring'. I saw a special once, where you cant get a new M3 with 0-100 miles on it, because each one does 200 miles on the Ring' with a special driver before they ok' it for sale.

The engine has been designed and built for a specific purpose, and the engine is extrodinary for what it does. That being said i'll take an LS3, and let the Germans check their ass 4 million times a second and be happy.

[MajorTom]

I dunno about the engine in the M3, but I know I read an article in Car and Driver where they said to buy the engine in the C63 AMG would cost someone around 35k. Compare that to 6k for the LS3.


America has value. It may not have the top notch chassis that the german cars but they're still good for the money.

[LSxcellent]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

What I don't get about the V8 in the new M3 is that it is being hailed as being soo lightweight but its still heavier than an LS3. Its still a great engine, but I think there might be a little too much hype for it.

The M3 Engine is amazing because its a V8 that makes >100hp/L... it does this with a VERY high redline, something that has not been seen in a street car before.

Why does this matter? In Europe (and most of Asia) cars are taxed on engine displacement! Thus, if your a poor Frenchy that wants a fast car, the new M3 will be as fast as a car with a larger engine. BUT you won't pay the taxes on the larger engine (taxes on a 6.0L vs. 4.0L are dramatically different).

Does this matter in the U.S. of A.? Nope. We can have as big an engine as we like, provided it meets emissions regs (which the LS3 does with ease). In fact, the only reason for overhead cams, turbo's, etc is to increase an engines specific output... but there comes a point where this begins to hurt you.

For instance, the LS7 in a Corvette weighs a couple HUNDRED pounds less than the V10 in the BMW M5, but it produces the MORE power and torque!

Why?

More moving parts = more internal friction = reduced efficiency = worst fuel economy!

So ideally we'd all want an engine with as FEW moving parts as possible to reduce internal losses... which is exactly what the modern LS series engines does!

Me? I'll take an LS7 anyday! Best modern V8 on the planet. Compare hp/weight ratios of ANY other engine you like, and you'll see there isn't anything that can hold a candle to it!

~LSx