Electric Vehicles

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

I watched it on their own site https://www.autoline.tv/after-hours/...-wont-buy-evs/ The video ran better embedded there than actual YT.

They could have went more nitty-gritty on the odd findings. The higher multi-family EV take rate might not be apartments generically, maybe newer construction town homes (built to accommodate level 2). The guest mentioned public charger visibility/comfort for metro areas, but it would make more sense if it was workplace charging. He did mention one characterization as an "altruistic" mindset to BEV.

Do the hosts give guests questions before the show to prepare for? The guest was very polished, similar to a pollitcal pollster actually working toward moving opinion.

McElroy made some good points. He didn't go as far as saying some of those driver characterizations are revoking benefit of doubt or trust. Closer to the old Bill Hicks view of marketing. Gary's rhetorical $7500 toward real muscle purchases, shines a light on the undermined buyer leadership of the market.

The times that I’ve been on the show they’ve just outlined the topic and if there were any specific nuances they wanted me to address (How are suppliers going to navigate this transition?) but not forwarded any specific questions. For what it’s worth I also know Paul (the bigger guy) in passing (we recognize and wave at each other at auto shows and drive events) and I find that he is able to separate his personal opinion from what is important for the story / car review. The guy from Escalent I’ve met in meetings, but my impression of Escalent is they measure consumer opinion and try not to interject their own.

[Martinjlm]

I just saw where Shell announced that they will be closing 500 gas stations in 2024 and 500 in 2025 and converting them to EV charging stations. Sounds like a big deal, but in actuality considering they have something like 45,000 stations, maybe not so much. But it is consistent with their push on their Recharge subbrand. Recharge already operates the single largest charging station in the world in Shenzhen, China. It has 258 charging docks.

[Capricio]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...le-2024-03-19/


Some relief

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The times that I’ve been on the show they’ve just outlined the topic and if there were any specific nuances they wanted me to address (How are suppliers going to navigate this transition?) but not forwarded any specific questions. For what it’s worth I also know Paul (the bigger guy) in passing (we recognize and wave at each other at auto shows and drive events) and I find that he is able to separate his personal opinion from what is important for the story / car review. The guy from Escalent I’ve met in meetings, but my impression of Escalent is they measure consumer opinion and try not to interject their own.

The guy from Escalent came across as of-the-religion, when he spoke of plug-in owners not plugging in and that tech being seen as a wasted step toward EV. It can be framed that way. But that mind frame deserves blame. These threads could have been about products on a level field.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

The guy from Escalent came across as of-the-religion, when he spoke of plug-in owners not plugging in and that tech being seen as a wasted step toward EV. It can be framed that way. But that mind frame deserves blame. These threads could have been about products on a level field.

But Escalent does have data that shows that to be the case. I’ve seen it. It’s not near a majority, but a higher level than you would expect. It’s more an issue in Europe, Germany specifically, where a lot of people drive company cars and are reimbursed for fuel usage but not for their home electric bill.

[Martinjlm]

More interesting AutoLine content. Caresoft does a tear down of a Cybertruck. Should be noted that the president of Caresoft is Terry Woychowski. Terry was Executive Chief Engineer for GM Full Size Trucks, so he knows a little bit about trucks.

https://www.autoline.tv/car-reviews/...-gigacastings/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio

https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...le-2024-03-19/


Some relief

We are in the process of reviewing this for impact right now. It will influence the direction of our vehicle and powertrain production and sales forecasts going forward. At the end of the day what I’m seeing in the 77 pages of legalese is thatwhat it does is ease the curve of EV production in the middle terms, arriving at the same expectation for ICE / BEV split by 2032. So it gives automakers a longer runway to shift to high volume EV. If anything important pops out of our review that I can share without getting fired I’ll drop it in this thread.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

We are in the process of reviewing this for impact right now. It will influence the direction of our vehicle and powertrain production and sales forecasts going forward. At the end of the day what I’m seeing in the 77 pages of legalese is thatwhat it does is ease the curve of EV production in the middle terms, arriving at the same expectation for ICE / BEV split by 2032. So it gives automakers a longer runway to shift to high volume EV. If anything important pops out of our review that I can share without getting fired I’ll drop it in this thread.

I'd be curious to know how GM's "1 Million EV Units in 2025" may change. It would seem so much of that work is un-steerable at this point, with plants already being converted and plans to ramp-up production. Might it look like a lot of idled shifts? Or perhaps the 5.3 lives on in full-size trucks for longer?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

I'd be curious to know how GM's "1 Million EV Units in 2025" may change. It would seem so much of that work is un-steerable at this point, with plants already being converted and plans to ramp-up production. Might it look like a lot of idled shifts? Or perhaps the 5.3 lives on in full-size trucks for longer?

I don’t think GM is even talking about “this many by that year” anymore. They’ve clearly missed the 400,000 in 2023. Plant conversion timings CAN (and will) change. GM has delayed the conversion of Orion Twp and delayed the spending associated with that. What we are expecting for GM this year (2024) is about 250k BEV this calendar year, now that they’ve worked out all their problems with Ultium yield rate. But that’s our number, not GM’s stated number.

Expect the 5.3L or similar displacement to continue to exist for quite some time. The decisions GM and other automakers have to make now on a vehicle type by vehicle type basis is whether their mid-term portfolio (2026 - 32) will be gas / xHEV / BEV or gas / BEV. And which product types go full BEV when.

[lbls1]

The v8 engines should be allowed to be in production. I dare to say that it is one of the company's best powerplants. Notwithstanding the fuel economy, the power and reliability of the standard and optional v8 engines for Chevrolet, GMC and Cadillac are unmatched in comparison with the other engine choices.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by lbls1

The v8 engines should be allowed to be in production. I dare to say that it is one of the company's best powerplants. Notwithstanding the fuel economy, the power and reliability of the standard and optional v8 engines for Chevrolet, GMC and Cadillac are unmatched in comparison with the other engine choices.

Before you put your hand on a bible and make that statement you may want to look at Stellantis new line of Inline 6-cylinder twin turbo engines. Too early to comment on durability, but output and fuel economy are on par with GM V8s. Better power, actually. Hemi is gone for a reason. They have something better.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Before you put your hand on a bible and make that statement you may want to look at Stellantis new line of Inline 6-cylinder twin turbo engines. Too early to comment on durability, but output and fuel economy are on par with GM V8s. Better power, actually. Hemi is gone for a reason. They have something better.

Power is higher on the HO version, but given the choice of NA V8 vs Twin Turbo with both offering similar numbers, I would go V8. Simply because of the simpler setup and thus should be less of a maintenance headache.

The TT I6 does seem to be a great engine. Not disparaging it, just not sure why I would want to choose a more complex engine over a simpler one when both get the same FE and make the same power.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Power is higher on the HO version, but given the choice of NA V8 vs Twin Turbo with both offering similar numbers, I would go V8. Simply because of the simpler setup and thus should be less of a maintenance headache.

The TT I6 does seem to be a great engine. Not disparaging it, just not sure why I would want to choose a more complex engine over a simpler one when both get the same FE and make the same power.

No doubt an NA V8 is simpler with less things to go wrong. But the higher hp V8s also have boosting, so the same set of possible things gone wrong as a turbo V6. Most people won’t have the option of V8 vs boosted V6. Hemi is pretty much gone because it doesn’t work for emissions. The boosted V6 meets emissions, makes more horsepower (not same) and better fuel economy (not same) than the simpler V8, even comparing to the 6.4L. 500+ hp vs 485. 475 lb-ft to 475 lb-ft is even, but the V6TT makes 90% of its torque at 2,300 rpm. Fuel economy of course depends on applications so we’d have to compare like to like. I think Stellantis would have liked to continue the Hemi, because for the most part, all the tooling is amortized and it was built in Mexico. It was probably their lowest cost engine the past several years. But it would cost a ton of money to make it emissions compliance with the new regs.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Before you put your hand on a bible and make that statement you may want to look at Stellantis new line of Inline 6-cylinder twin turbo engines. Too early to comment on durability, but output and fuel economy are on par with GM V8s. Better power, actually. Hemi is gone for a reason. They have something better.

We'll see how an H.O. version of the (Fiat) Hurricane holds up in a half ton with towing duty after 200k. Speaking for those of us that drive vehicles with over 200k on them, I know I'd take a NA hemi V8 any day over a high mileage forced induction anything.