ALWAYS LOOKING FOR HELP - LS3 TOP END REBUILD

[zlathim]

Here is the picture:

[anthony.martinez]

soft core cam shaft.

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

I haven’t posted my ‘saga’ but I got REALLY LUCKY- I didn’t modify a thing on the car because I had 3rd Party Warranty assistance, which I didn’t expect or count on, it they actually cam through

Picked up the cam and we drove it over to Port Everglades to catch a cruise ships and had no problems, car drove like a a champ, etc was gone for 5 days got into the car in the parking garage and the check engine light lit up, I can’t say I wasn’t surprised 😲 anyways, she’s is running lean on both banks, OBD CODES P0171 & P0174- I just replaced the MAF SENSOR when chasing down the misfire problem so it brand new.

She’s is idling around 500/600 RPM at idle with the A/C (Florida the AC is always on) and I figure she is running light on the idle anyways - she normally idles at 700/800 at idle with the AC on

Wondering if I burnt out my O2 sensors - but that would only account for 1 back, when the misfire was, 6th cylinder, should not be running both banks lien

Nothing appears to be disconnected or off, looked for vacuum leaks- didn’t find anything ??

Any ideas 💡

Will post the whole saga, parts, cost, time etc when I get a minute about that cam and lifter mess

Appreciate the help (as always)

Paul

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

Well, got the car back and when I picked it up 2 weeks ago they told me that it was running ‘lean’, drive the to Port Everglades and get on a ship for a week go back to the car firing it up and the OBD / CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS ON (no one drove the car for a week while we were gone) showing P0171 & P0174, the shop that did the work told me they triple checked for vaccum leaks and then they tired to tell me they believe it was the upstream sensors and wanted $550 to fix them, one was acting effective, I was a little bit more the irrated (hadnt even gotten the Mastercard bill yet for the $875.00 the charged me over what the 3rd party warranty company paid, plus a month of a rental car) then clipped me for a $150 in addition diagnostic and were ‘willing’ to absorb the price of the diagnosis if I had them do the work for $550, I thought that it was penny wise and pound foolish to hit me for another diagnostic fee and felt the $4400.00 should have gone a long way againest stuff like that, so the $4400 from the 3rd party warranty company plus the $875.00 was a little excessive but i have no problem with the world profit just don’t make it all on me.

I picked up 2 AC DELCO upstream sensors at AUTOZONE and they shipped it (for whatever reason the store couldn’t even come close to matching the price, the wanted $175 each and I was able to get the right and left for $160 expedited shipping and taxes included, I asked the guy at autozone why could he couldnt match price, he seem more frustrated the. I did.

Anyways, the tools that I have for removing those are ‘ancient’ and I rented a set from AUTOZONE for $32.00 and with some penetration blaster it was smooth, that kit for AUTOZONE was the difference- the right side is tough as the is no room to work, and didn’t want to strip down those wires as they tell most people to do in case they had to go back in, so now I have 2 upstream sensors and on the way to the Doctor office the OBD lights came up, showing p171 & p174 again with brand new sensors, the idle was a little erratic in neutral dumping down 200 rpm’s and then recovering, the shop another diagnostic??

I just put in MAF sensor, about 3 weeks before all heck broke loose, I am wondering if I should replace that again, or perhaps the downstream sensors- the downstream just check the upstream - correct ??

When I call the garage to tell them the light were back and we still had a issue, you would have thought they never saw my car before - I can appreciate they might have been upset that I used there diagnostic against them but after what I just spent I don’t have a choice, who wouldn’t ??

Any thoughts on what can be doing this ?
Any way on being able to tell if you burnt up the catalyst?

Thanks

Paul

[christianchevell]

MAF must be sealed well and not a defective number kept clean with all things attached well and good plugs etc..... your cats should be fine, most likely your experiencing something not put back together quite right IMO codes can be deceptive. Check and tighten the TB, the Air tube, check all plugs and wires, check wires not being fried to the O2 sensors also....would be what I would do first good luck, a loose anything can cause codes from hell, and would unhook and rehook the battery to clear codes also...…...Good Luck.

[InFiD3ViL]

Damn bro. You could have gotten the OEM Denso Upstream O2 sensors for $90 total on Amazon. I have had awesome luck with them.
Guess that doesn't help you now though. But in case you ever need another set...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

Just replaced upstream 02 sensors as shop told me the passenger side was flat lining and now I back to P0171 & P0174 UGH

No vaccum leaks,’ran perfect for 2 days after installing new upstream 02 sensors is the check engine light is back, car is idling funny

And I paid someone to mess up my car . . . I could have done that

Thoughts anyone ??

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

I know I could have gotten a different l brand for less, I have could have picked up ‘Walker’ for $50.00

Just with everything that’s go on with the car I would rather stick with AC DELCO, it in love with the price but it’s OEM and it I am chasing problems I don’t want to sti I a 3rd party 02 sensor while I am having issue

The car is acting funny, not ‘ha ha’ funny, the idle is ‘quirky’ runs at about 600 and is still running lean, the sensors go on and off - how can I expect the garage the fix something that is not a constant ??

Maybe I should run pump regular gas instead of super the codes cleared out and have come back but I have put nothing but super is, how can I go back to shop a complain it’s not fun in right but you can hear it if you Lessing to idle for a couple minutes

I haven’t torn down a engine in yours, I am starting the think is around the throttle body, I used can of carb cleaner in search of the getting the rpms to ‘move’ I can’t find it

I wondering if the fuel pump is going

As always appreciate any thoughts

Paul

[Wizard1183]

Originally Posted by carjockey71@gmail.com

I know I could have gotten a different l brand for less, I have could have picked up ‘Walker’ for $50.00

Just with everything that’s go on with the car I would rather stick with AC DELCO, it in love with the price but it’s OEM and it I am chasing problems I don’t want to sti I a 3rd party 02 sensor while I am having issue

The car is acting funny, not ‘ha ha’ funny, the idle is ‘quirky’ runs at about 600 and is still running lean, the sensors go on and off - how can I expect the garage the fix something that is not a constant ??

Maybe I should run pump regular gas instead of super the codes cleared out and have come back but I have put nothing but super is, how can I go back to shop a complain it’s not fun in right but you can hear it if you Lessing to idle for a couple minutes

I haven’t torn down a engine in yours, I am starting the think is around the throttle body, I used can of carb cleaner in search of the getting the rpms to ‘move’ I can’t find it

I wondering if the fuel pump is going

As always appreciate any thoughts

Paul

Well you replaced parts. Go to Autozone and have em pull codes. Then check those out if those codes are problematic parts?

[silversleeper]

Here is the service manual coverage of those codes, I think it was about page 8000 something.

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

Well I said I would post the cost of the entire saga and right now and only 870 miles later and about $5000.00 later it’s back at the shop, throwing codes for p0171 & p0174 and has been since I got the car back

Got the car back on a Friday, after the top end was rebuilt and I picked up the car they told me they cleared 2 codes out (p0171 & p0174) as it was running lien but it probably was just the system setting in, and after they wiped the codes they drove it 13 miles and it was fine.

Be for I forget, I was very fortunate and had 3rd party warranty assistance that handled a giant portion of the bill, but it still cost me a fortunate and I didn’t get to put one performance part!

Anyways we drove the car to Port Everglades to go on a cruise (would have lost the fair if we cancelled and I was ready for vacation after this) drove the car about 300 miles - I though the idle was a little off but I have not done this in 20 years so I felt with warranty let someone not so rusty handle it, I made sure my wife didn’t use the cruise and told her to not stay a one speed for too long because we had to break in that top end again for 500 miles.

We got off the ship 5 days later and the check engine light was waiting the second we fired the car up, I had my scanner in my hand but I left it in the garage, we found a Auto-zone and it pulled the codes of course p0171 & p0174. So I call the shop (it was a Saturday) explain the deal with the car and while I knew the car was ok to drive back but I wanted them to be aware what was going on.

Brought the car back to the shop and the told me my upstream sensor were erratic and needed to be replaced and wanted $550, and truthfully if I wasn’t in the automotive business my whole life I probably would of had gone nuts but I know things happened, I was a little upset they charged me $115 for diagnostic they were insistent in the sensors, so I told them the truth, I could t afford to have the sensors done at there shop after $2000+ and would do the sensors myself, paid $160 for AC DELCO upstream 02 sensors and the code went away for about a day and came right back, called the garage again and told them the code came back after a day with the new sensors, they didn’t have time to take the car before Wednesday so I told them I would drop it off tonight (Tuesday) 02/26/19

It seems strange to me that once the job became a warranty job they tossed all these little extras at me, everything had to be AC DELCO parts a according to the warranty company which is another reason I used AC DELCO sensors and not Denso, walker, NGK, etc.

3rd party warranty would up paying about $3800 and besides a couple of little things (like paying for 1 lifter which was easily resolved) they warranty company, warranty solutions was so good to deal with and I have to give credit to my wife for remembering the warranty in the first place. Spent about 3 weeks chasing t receipts from Valvoline, Kauffman Tire, Mastercard, VISA and especially Autozone (Autozone keeps amazing records) because without them there is no way I code have proved the maintenance was actually preformed, we chased records for 3 weeks and only missed 2 slips for synthetic oil changes in the 40 months and 30,000 we put on the car we were able to provide all the other maintenance records and while some were done by me and some were down by oil change companies the warranty company ‘Warranty Solutions’ understood (which proof of reciepts) that I bought oil in bulk, along with filters and they were actually very accommodating from working me and the garage, they even picked up 8 days of the rental, so on that end they paid $3800, I had to pay $860.00, taxes of $340.00 (7%) and there where some things that happened that I had to pay for, 2 hours on a broken exhaust bolt to be drilled out some of the gaskets, etc were not covered and there was $600 chasing the original issues from the check engine light p306 before we knew that the lifter was junk and groove the cam, the plugs, wires, MAF sensor, battery, new compression tester, etc. are in that $600.00

I was suppose to have $100 deductible but that’s always a fantasy it never works that way, the bill was $4680.00 to the shop, PLUS and addition $115.00 in addition diagnostic with the 02 sensors, $600.00 trying to fix the car myself before realizing I had no compression trying to resolve the issues, $600.00 for the rental (got a great rate from enterprise- it pays to shop around) and we kept extending the rental ever week, good thing the car was done at the 28 day mark because if we went 30 days on the rental car contact needed to be rewritten and we probably would have lost the rate (who know that stuff?) another $160.00 in upstream 02 sensors, so all in about $6155.00, and my wife and I covered about $2355.00 and hopefully were done with this but with the car back the shop and I am anxious to say the least.

They said it was checked for vacuum leaks but I think we have one, I am really hoping it’s something simple, I hope the shop isn’t misunderstanding my ‘nice guy’ approach as I think this should definitely be on them, profit is not a dirty word - just don’t make it all on me.

Will post the update when I find out what happens with the 02 sensors

Once again everyone who contributed and offered advice I really appreciate, I think the one thing that I glad I did was step back and take a deep breath and not rush into decisions, fingers cross on the next step

Hope someone finds this useful

Best

Paul

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

I wanted to add that in between codes ( this cycles p0171 & p0174) on and off, which is making it that much harder to figure, but before I drop the car off I took a capture with my old ACTRON scanner and it gave me these number (I won’t post all of them but have them if there is something you think might but the issue)

IGN ADV 13.5
ST FIRM1 -0.8
ST FIRM2 -0.8
LT FTRM1 14..8
LT FTRM2 12.5


VEH SPEED 0
ABS LOAD 18.0
FUEL PRES (PSI) 57
FUEL PRES (PSI) 58

Since the car is in the shop I can get new number right now, but I just realize that the CEL ( check engine lights) were off and not coded at this time (p0171 & p0174)

Maybe this will help someone figure out what up -

Thanks

Paul

[silversleeper]

If it is the same old orange actron I have it will show maf sensor and throttle position. If that seems to move up and down like it should I'd be looking for a vacuum leak first. Exhaust leak second and the other stuff in the list I posted after that.
IIRC the tps doesn't go from 0 to 100, something like 14-86%, you can search c5 or google if you want more exact values but the point is don't assume bad tps because it doesn't show what you intuitively expected.
Oh and vacuum too, that should be one to really look at, vacuum at idle. manifold absolute pressure or vacuum however your gauges or actron show.