[00 Trans Ram]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

In a perfect world, but who can have a completely perfect run? I'm sure there are points where the RPM gets a bit lower.

FYI, back in 2008, I made a program that helped me calculate optimal shift points. Here was the output.



I wasn't worried about getting max power below 50mph (the sections were too slow, with no aero, so I'd just spin tires anyway). But, I figured that my max power was from 5000-6600.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Chris V

Mine was 3,663 stock, 1/4 tank.

Seems Chris' test validates the posted curb weight spot on if full fuel capacity was added. Good to know.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

G3s are far superior over Pilot Super Sports.
So yes better tires would close the gap some for sure.

But that would add even more cost to the M2.
And it already sits in a ZL1 price category...a car it couldnt remotely touch no matter what tires one put on it.

I have met a few M2s at various tracks over the past 2 years on various rubber and it is no contest.
Competition model will up the game for sure. But for a price of a ZL1, which makes little sense to me performance wise.

G3's Non R tires are not better than the michelin pilot sport 4S, G3's are not better than the Michelin pilot super sport, maybe equal. The G3 R tires are equal to the Michelin Cup 2's

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

G3's Non R tires are not better than the michelin pilot sport 4S, G3's are not better than the Michelin pilot super sport, maybe equal. The G3 R tires are equal to the Michelin Cup 2's

You are incorrect.

The Supercar 3's are an extreme performance category tire, the 4S are a Max performance Summer tire. Two totally separate classes of tires.

Just do a little Google searching from those who have tried both. The stock SS 1LE & ZL1 tires are a performance class above the 4S's

The Goodyear F1 Supercar 3 tires match up performance wise with the Bridgestone RE-11 and Yokohama Advan Neova 08R's

I have used all of those tires, including the 4S on my cars listed below.

Also, putting a stickier tire on a car with a chassis that isn't designed for it, can cause instability. The M2C, while probably a good in-between car, loss to the SS 1LE in the handling, chassis department. YOU TRY TO PUT 1.1 Lateral G on the M2C and you will have a mess of a car. Where the M2C excels is in the drivetrain and DCT and taken to 8/10th and below. The SS 1LE is a 10/10th kind of car.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

G3's Non R tires are not better than the michelin pilot sport 4S, G3's are not better than the Michelin pilot super sport, maybe equal. The G3 R tires are equal to the Michelin Cup 2's

Not sure what your information sources are, but: No. Not even close. And no.

Suggestion: head over to the Road Course part of the forum where these very tires get discussed frequently and in detail for actual results. Assuming you're referring to track vs street performance.

And a hint: SS 1le beat Z/28 (on uber Trofeo Rs) at Laguna. With less power and no DSSV trick suspension. Indeed G3s are THIS good.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Not sure what your information sources are, but: No. Not even close. And no.

Suggestion: head over to the Road Course part of the forum where these very tires get discussed frequently and in detail for actual results. Assuming you're referring to track vs street performance.

And a hint: SS 1le beat Z/28 (on uber Trofeo Rs) at Laguna. With less power and no DSSV trick suspension. Indeed G3s are THIS good.

SURELY he meant as a street tire?!?! LOL.....you don't even need a Gen 3 GY tire to compete with those tires on track, the Gen 2 did just fine.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

SURELY he meant as a street tire?!?! LOL.....you don't even need a Gen 3 GY tire to compete with those tires on track, the Gen 2 did just fine.

Based on lap times of a previous gen 1le at Mosport i agree completely. The only exception on the list is the G3R which by all accounts seems closer to Hoosiers

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

SURELY he meant as a street tire?!?! LOL.....you don't even need a Gen 3 GY tire to compete with those tires on track, the Gen 2 did just fine.

For the most part I am referring to use on the street and drag racing. But just recently Randy Pobst tested the 2018 SS1LE versus the PP2 Mustang GT and he stated The gen 3 Eagle F1 tires are street tires versus the Cup 2 Michelin on the PP2 car which is a track tire, the SS1LE would have been even faster on the road course if it had the Cup 2's the Ford had, Both original equipment tires.
BTW, the SS1LE did beat the PP2 stang in that test, but the margin was close.

Now if the SS1LE had the same R spec tire the ZL1 1LE has, now that is a better comparison as those two tires are direct competitors.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

For the most part I am referring to use on the street and drag racing. But just recently Randy Pobst tested the 2018 SS1LE versus the PP2 Mustang GT and he stated The gen 3 Eagle F1 tires are street tires versus the Cup 2 Michelin on the PP2 car which is a track tire, the SS1LE would have been even faster on the road course if it had the Cup 2's the Ford had, Both original equipment tires.
BTW, the SS1LE did beat the PP2 stang in that test, but the margin was close.

Now if the SS1LE had the same R spec tire the ZL1 1LE has, now that is a better comparison as those two tires are direct competitors.

I must disagree with you again. Based on actual tests MT ran, such as stopping distance and skid pad the G3 actually marginally outperforms Cup2s. Forget the tire classification by manufacturers as these are often marketing related, including sandbagging by manufacturers to allow amateur racers to use a said tire in street classes. Ref my earlier example of 1le on G3 vs Z/28 on Trofeo R at Laguna.
Ive tried both tires on my 1le at various tracks and i have turned my fastest laps on G3s. But i am willing to call them virtually equal. The G3R tire is in another league as compared to either of the two however. The grip is much higher (some published feedback suggests close to an R7). They also seem to last a fraction of the other two when used on track. Cheers!

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

For the most part I am referring to use on the street and drag racing.

With those uses being where your interests mainly are, you probably shouldn't pay too much attention to how tires compared in a road course environment fared.


I agree with TrackClub on the matter of designating tires into general categories, and I don't think it matters a whole lot whether that's being done by the tire mfr or the tire seller. It's never going to be as useful as having specific test results. I suppose assigning tires to categories is better than nothing in many or even most cases, but don't try to read too much into it.


Norm

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

With those uses being where your interests mainly are, you probably shouldn't pay too much attention to how tires compared in a road course environment fared.


I agree with TrackClub on the matter of designating tires into general categories, and I don't think it matters a whole lot whether that's being done by the tire mfr or the tire seller. It's never going to be as useful as having specific test results. I suppose assigning tires to categories is better than nothing in many or even most cases, but don't try to read too much into it.


Norm

Words of wisdom. Especially given that some street designated tires are now faster vs R comps per independent and published tests.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Unless you want the prestige of the Porsche or BMW symbol. Why wasting your money on them if on performance a Camaro ZL1 or a SS 1LE would beat most of them on the track except the Porsche GT2RS which is super expensive.

[max pl]

there is more to a car then performance. its not just about prestige when buying porsche or bmw. you want pure performance get a track car.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by max pl

there is more to a car then performance. its not just about prestige when buying porsche or bmw. you want pure performance get a track car.

What is it then (that justifies paying 2 or 3 times the price)?