[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I would love to see what the Camaro would have looked like before the whole retro thing came back.

Me too. I wonder if that would be fair game for Ask Al. The Camaro that never was. Share whatever sketches or renderings for historical and entertainment value.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by protovack

More doom and gloom. Ford is just trimming fat, its not surprising and really has nothing to do with the sports car market. There have been sports cars around as long as cars have existed. That will never change. People watch too much TV and it makes them view the future through a pessimistic lens.

That they're keeping the Mustang is the only bright spot in that whole announcement if you can't see yourself ever driving a SUV or crossover (let alone actually want to).

Doom and gloom . . . what other reaction would you expect when a mfr announces that he's going to completely stop making the only kind of family-oriented vehicle you'd buy? Or at least have the opportunity to choose?


Norm

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

That they're keeping the Mustang is the only bright spot in that whole announcement if you can't see yourself ever driving a SUV or crossover (let alone actually want to).

Doom and gloom . . . what other reaction would you expect when a mfr announces that he's going to completely stop making the only kind of family-oriented vehicle you'd buy? Or at least have the opportunity to choose?


Norm

Agreed. Times are a changing. The entire car industry here in the Dystopian America is on a down swing. The smart kids are moving back into the cities and cars do not interest them. In way it makes sense for those left in the burbs. Station wagons make more sense than a sedan especially with kids. Calling station wagons or minivans SUVs make them sound cool. So it's okay to buy them and not be your grand parents. We are not square we are Sporty! Woodies will be the next step in the "SUV" evolution.

But it sounds like cars we like will be around for a while. They are very profitable. And soon we won't have to worry about emission controls. They will get a little faster.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Agreed. Times are a changing. The entire car industry here in the Dystopian America is on a down swing. The smart kids are moving back into the cities and cars do not interest them. In way it makes sense for those left in the burbs. Station wagons make more sense than a sedan especially with kids. Calling station wagons or minivans SUVs make them sound cool. So it's okay to buy them and not be your grand parents. We are not square we are Sporty! Woodies will be the next step in the "SUV" evolution.

But it sounds like cars we like will be around for a while. They are very profitable. And soon we won't have to worry about emission controls. They will get a little faster.

In the early 2000s a “good year” was US sales of 12 - 15 million vehicles a year. By 2009 - 10, sales had dropped to around 10 - 11 and two major companies went bankrupt. Both those companies have restructured to the point where at least one of them has focused on being profitable should the industry again drop back to a 10 million/year level.

Fast forward to today, where the industry is deemed to be in a “mini-slump” because 2017 fell short of the 17 million vehicles a year mark that has become the norm since about 2014. GM continues to rack up record profit numbers. Much of that has come from operations in China and also from avoiding losses by walking away from money losing markets in Asia, parts of Europe, and parts of South America. But unlike the years preceding bankruptcy, the US market continues to add strong profit to the overall corporate cash drawer, as opposed to needing to be offset by strong performance in China as had been the case in the early 2000s. I’m not seeing the downswing. Change? Yes. Downswing. Nope.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

In the early 2000s a “good year” was US sales of 12 - 15 million vehicles a year. By 2009 - 10, sales had dropped to around 10 - 11 and two major companies went bankrupt. Both those companies have restructured to the point where at least one of them has focused on being profitable should the industry again drop back to a 10 million/year level.

Fast forward to today, where the industry is deemed to be in a “mini-slump” because 2017 fell short of the 17 million vehicles a year mark that has become the norm since about 2014. GM continues to rack up record profit numbers. Much of that has come from operations in China and also from avoiding losses by walking away from money losing markets in Asia, parts of Europe, and parts of South America. But unlike the years preceding bankruptcy, the US market continues to add strong profit to the overall corporate cash drawer, as opposed to needing to be offset by strong performance in China as had been the case in the early 2000s. I’m not seeing the downswing. Change? Yes. Downswing. Nope.

What I am saying is social factors are good indicators of future changing trends. The car manufacturers see something coming and don't want to get caught with their pants down this time. Besides the city migration, the shrinking middle class is another one. Here the incredibly stupid school loan situation is part of that problem. It is almost like the government wants a less educated electorate. That couldn't be true, could it?

What we really need is a 1,000% better public transportation system. Not more cars. But we will never get that because what we buy instead is more aircraft carriers and stupid complicated jets that will never be reliable. While we completely screw the solders who risk their lives for us. Hmm now who does that benefit?

What is really happening is we are witnessing the fall of Rome. And the big companies see it coming.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

What I am saying is social factors are good indicators of future changing trends. The car manufacturers see something coming and don't want to get caught with their pants down this time. Besides the city migration, the shrinking middle class is another one. Here the incredibly stupid school loan situation is part of that problem. It is almost like the government wants a less educated electorate. That couldn't be true, could it?

What we really need is a 1,000% better public transportation system. Not more cars. But we will never get that because what we buy instead is more aircraft carriers and stupid complicated jets that will never be reliable. While we completely screw the solders who risk their lives for us. Hmm now who does that benefit?

What is really happening is we are witnessing the fall of Rome. And the big companies see it coming.

I guess I must have misinterpreted your prior post, because I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said in this last post EXCEPT the last line. I don’t see that at all. It could, potentially, be a worst case scenario, but I’m not seeing real evidence that it is the most likely outcome.

[maraging]

I predict the future.. Gas price skyrockets for some manipulated reason. Ford has no vehicles to sell. RIP Ford. :(

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Agreed. Times are a changing. The entire car industry here in the Dystopian America is on a down swing. The smart kids are moving back into the cities and cars do not interest them. In way it makes sense for those left in the burbs. Station wagons make more sense than a sedan especially with kids. Calling station wagons or minivans SUVs make them sound cool. So it's okay to buy them and not be your grand parents. We are not square we are Sporty! Woodies will be the next step in the "SUV" evolution.

But it sounds like cars we like will be around for a while. They are very profitable. And soon we won't have to worry about emission controls. They will get a little faster.

dont laugh.my moms 66 ford country squire came with a 390-4v,C6 trans and 3:91 posi.and fake woodgrain trim...

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

What I am saying is social factors are good indicators of future changing trends. The car manufacturers see something coming and don't want to get caught with their pants down this time. Besides the city migration, the shrinking middle class is another one. Here the incredibly stupid school loan situation is part of that problem. It is almost like the government wants a less educated electorate. That couldn't be true, could it?

What we really need is a 1,000% better public transportation system. Not more cars. But we will never get that because what we buy instead is more aircraft carriers and stupid complicated jets that will never be reliable. While we completely screw the solders who risk their lives for us. Hmm now who does that benefit?

What is really happening is we are witnessing the fall of Rome. And the big companies see it coming.

im not thinking you are wrong.the rich will get richer,the wars we pick will continue to drain us,and the steady stream of immigrants will bankrupt us.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by maraging

I predict the future.. Gas price skyrockets for some manipulated reason. Ford has no vehicles to sell. RIP Ford. :(

If they were stuck with only BOF SUV's... yeah, I could see that.

But;
Ecosport at 27/29/28 mpg,
Escape at 23/30/28,
Edge at 21/29/24, and
Explorer at 19/27/22,

they're aren't exactly left without efficiency conscious choices. Even the BOF options aren't terrible these days, F-150 can be had 20/26/22 and Expedition at 17/24/20. And with Ford looking to Hybridize and electrify their entire lineup, these numbers will only improve.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

im not thinking you are wrong.the rich will get richer,the wars we pick will continue to drain us,and the steady stream of immigrants will bankrupt us.

We agree on all but the last. But immigrants are taking many of the high tech jobs US citizens are leaving on the table.

We have to rise up, get our heads out of our phones, and get involved to make change. Do it to save the Camaros!!

(see how I stayed on topic)

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

If they were stuck with only BOF SUV's... yeah, I could see that.

But;
Ecosport at 27/29/28 mpg,
Escape at 23/30/28,
Edge at 21/29/24, and
Explorer at 19/27/22,

they're aren't exactly left without efficiency conscious choices. Even the BOF options aren't terrible these days, F-150 can be had 20/26/22 and Expedition at 17/24/20. And with Ford looking to Hybridize and electrify their entire lineup, these numbers will only improve.

It's not just about fuel efficiency. Half a million people still chose Ford sedans when they could have bought an SUV or a CUV instead.


Norm

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It's not just about fuel efficiency. Half a million people still chose Ford sedans when they could have bought an SUV or a CUV instead.


Norm

True. Some of that is price. Some of it is styling. Some of it is brand / model loyalty. Ford is clearly hoping that when the model is no longer available, the buyer still stays with the brand.

When automakers look at vehicle-turned-in data, a very high percentage of CUV sales are people turning in sedans. When you look at second choice data (new buyers get surveyed on other vehicles considered) sedan buyers often show CUVs as their second choice and CUV buyers often show sedans rated behind other CUVs in their choice data. What that all means is there is a consistent and continuous shift of buyer preference from sedans to CUVs.

[Godfatha]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

We agree on all but the last. But immigrants are taking many of the high tech jobs US citizens are leaving on the table.

We have to rise up, get our heads out of our phones, and get involved to make change. Do it to save the Camaros!!

(see how I stayed on topic)

Our education system is failing us in that regard, and our society as a whole. There's not enough emphasis placed on math and sciences, and way too many worthless degrees/fields of study out there.

I'd love to see more corporate involvement in education, similar to what Germany has.