Legal Race: Dark Horae vs Camaro vs Challenger - Page 2

SS_Don · 10-19-2023, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

Mine is a 17' Super Sport manual, I am waiting for the 2025 Camaro when they up the HP to 505.

Do you know something the rest of us don’t?

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BatMobileLT1 · 10-19-2023, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RideWithDanger

Yeah I agree with most of that. Its not hard to make a Dark Horse over 80k MSRP with just a few options though. I am certainly not hating on the Dark Horse, its very fast, and a overall very nice car. I just don't think you get what you pay for in the performance department, but it does have its advantages over the Camaro as well. Its just not a great look for the Dark Horse when a bare bones Camaro at half the price and 45 less horsepower is right on its tail, and with a few bolt ons would have the LT1 in the lead.

Again, great car, I just don't think the price tag is justified for any of the Mustang models currently.

Agreed - and for a few bolts on, how about just wheel/tire upgrade?
Unless i missed it, as far as I could tell the LT1 was just on stock 245 all season run flats?

I'm not an expert but since the first thing every LT1 drag racer does it swap the tires out for some wide drag radials, I assume that should make a significant difference.

If so, my theory is they picked LT1 over SS or SS/1LE not for lower weight but to handicap its grip to keep it from embarrassingly beating the Dark Horse in the drag race.
Even better would be to see them swap tires with Dark Horse and then see what the results would be! (modified to fit as needed)
Maybe with that much drop in tire width & grip the DH might have ended up 3rd?

RideWithDanger · 10-19-2023, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BatMobileLT1

Agreed - and for a few bolts on, how about just wheel/tire upgrade?
Unless i missed it, as far as I could tell the LT1 was just on stock 245 all season run flats?

I'm not an expert but since the first thing every LT1 drag racer does it swap the tires out for some wide drag radials, I assume that should make a significant difference.

If so, my theory is they picked LT1 over SS or SS/1LE not for lower weight but to handicap its grip to keep it from embarrassingly beating the Dark Horse in the drag race.
Even better would be to see them swap tires with Dark Horse and then see what the results would be! (modified to fit as needed)
Maybe with that much drop in tire width & grip the DH might have ended up 3rd?

Yeah that is kinda where I am on what happened. For minimal effort you can use the LT1 to beat a Mustang thats twice its price. I really do applaud Ford for keeping the V8 going in a sports car, but the value just isn't there for me. Its not an ideal track car (albeit it is a fast one) and its not at all the best bang for your buck drag racer. I guess they can get away with it though being the last man standing and riding that Mustang name plate.

Plasar · 10-19-2023, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

Mine is a 17' Super Sport manual, I am waiting for the 2025 Camaro when they up the HP to 505.

That was 2014-2015 with the Z/28!

JT6Speed · 10-19-2023, 09:10 PM

Just saw this tonight. I always like their content. Shame we won't be getting much more of this head to head with new models anymore.

Overall this just shows how good the Camaro really holds up. No matter LT1 or 1LE you get great performance right until the last model year.

Number 3 · 10-19-2023, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megahurtz

Why wouldn't they test the SS 1LE vs the Darkhorse instead of a base level LT1? I never understood these sorts of tests where they clearly want a specific car to win. Albeit not buy much lol.

You did notice the Camaro was courtesy of a Chrysler dealer?

JamesNoBrakes · 10-19-2023, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trak-Toy

Ford simply recreated the SS 1LE and called it the ‘Dark Horse’.. albeit, 7 years later..

To be fair, they are drag racin.

LT1 is faster in a straight line than a 1LE.

Bosse'sBoss · 10-20-2023, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megahurtz

Why wouldn't they test the SS 1LE vs the Darkhorse instead of a base level LT1? I never understood these sorts of tests where they clearly want a specific car to win. Albeit not buy much lol.

It was just a straight line racing, so it doesn't matter too much.

Bosse'sBoss · 10-20-2023, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

2024 zl1 is 74k now but I agree it’s closer to the dark horse price wise than the SS 1le. I now think the dark horses price is justified. It was quite a bit faster than the SS 1le with cup 2 tires they tested a few years ago. I really wish the Mach 1 they tested was bone stock (no rear seat delete and no aftermarket spoiler) but man it was VERY close to the 1le’s time with cup 2 tires. Remember the 2 Fords that beat the SS 1le come with stickier tires from the factory and their front tire sizes start with a 3! I think if Chevy had given the 1le a front tire that started with a 3 it would be faster than the Mach1 but it still wouldn’t have caught the dark horse. That dark horse was super quick. I will say I don’t know if the trofeo’s are stickier than the cup 2’s. The dark horse comes with some decent arrow which I think contributed to its fast lap time.

Apparently Trofeos were the tires of the late Z28?

Bosse'sBoss · 10-20-2023, 01:31 AM

I'm very surprised that the Dark Horse had a better lap time compared to the Camaro ZL1 1LE. But the 2024 Mustang GT is behind all the Muscle car pack. They had great words for the Camaro and the Mach l.

KirillWA · 10-20-2023, 02:10 AM

Few thoughts after watching both videos - first one where GT competes with 1LE, and a new one from today with Dark Horse vs LT1.

First, they've mentioned in the middle of the video that their track is very bumpy and uneven, and Magnaride has a big advantage because of it over cars with non-adjustable stiff suspension like ZL1 1LE. They couldn't uncover full potential of ZL1 1LE on their track because of stiffness, so this video doesn't mean that Dark Horse is faster on track than ZL1 1LE.

Second, brakes calipers on Dark Horse look very similar to Brembos on SS 1LE. I'm very curious to see the results if you put SS 1LE on Trofeo RS tires and swap the pads with something more simllar to pads in Dark Horse.

FarmerFran · 10-20-2023, 06:24 AM

The dark horse time was faster than the ZLE

BatMobileLT1 · 10-20-2023, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

To be fair, they are drag racin.

LT1 is faster in a straight line than a 1LE.

Is that true even on LT1's stock 245 all-season run-flats?

I would think LT1 would need wheel/tire upgrade to be able to out drag 1LE?

GearheadSS · 10-20-2023, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megahurtz

Why wouldn't they test the SS 1LE vs the Darkhorse instead of a base level LT1? I never understood these sorts of tests where they clearly want a specific car to win. Albeit not buy much lol.

The LT1 is probably the only car available to them.

10-19-2023, 09:10 PM	#19
JT6Speed Drives: 2023 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Mar 2023 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 175	Just saw this tonight. I always like their content. Shame we won't be getting much more of this head to head with new models anymore. Overall this just shows how good the Camaro really holds up. No matter LT1 or 1LE you get great performance right until the last model year. __________________ Black 2023 Camaro 1SS Coupe M6 Ordered: April 2022-----Built: July 2022-----Delivered: September 2022 -Dual-Mode Exhaust (NPP) -Red Painted Calipers (J6F) -5 Split Spoke Bright Silver Painted Aluminum Wheels (56W) -Chrome Camaro Logo Fender Badge -Second Generation Front Splitter in Satin Black

10-20-2023, 01:31 AM	#24
Bosse'sBoss Drives: '16 Camaro SS 6 spd manual transm. Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: RGV Texas Posts: 1,463	I'm very surprised that the Dark Horse had a better lap time compared to the Camaro ZL1 1LE. But the 2024 Mustang GT is behind all the Muscle car pack. They had great words for the Camaro and the Mach l. Attached Images __________________ '16 Camaro SS Prior cars: '14 Corvette C7 Stingray Z51 '14 Camaro ZL1 w/. Recaro seats '11 Mustang GT 5.0 w. track package '02 Porsche 911 Carrera '05 Infiniti G35 coupe sport

10-20-2023, 02:10 AM	#25
KirillWA Drives: 2022 Camaro 1SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2022 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 53	Few thoughts after watching both videos - first one where GT competes with 1LE, and a new one from today with Dark Horse vs LT1. First, they've mentioned in the middle of the video that their track is very bumpy and uneven, and Magnaride has a big advantage because of it over cars with non-adjustable stiff suspension like ZL1 1LE. They couldn't uncover full potential of ZL1 1LE on their track because of stiffness, so this video doesn't mean that Dark Horse is faster on track than ZL1 1LE. Second, brakes calipers on Dark Horse look very similar to Brembos on SS 1LE. I'm very curious to see the results if you put SS 1LE on Trofeo RS tires and swap the pads with something more simllar to pads in Dark Horse. __________________ 2022 Camaro 1SS 1LE Rapid Blue 6MT Looking for traction on wet pavement in Seattle.

10-20-2023, 06:24 AM	#26
FarmerFran Drives: 2023 ZL1 Vert M6 "Sharky" Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Earth Posts: 4,032	The dark horse time was faster than the ZLE __________________ 2023 Camaro ZL1 Vert TR-6060 Sharkskin "Sharky" Firecracker Red Wrangler Willys, 3.6L eTorque, 850RE 8 speed automatic, 25W Willys package, Technology Group, Convenience Group (aka $600 garage door opener), Cold weather Group, Trailer Tow and HD electric group with AUX switches, 3 piece black freedom top.

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