[Paulman]

I’m trying to see if anyone has had experience with putting a non 1LE V6 on a road course or autocross course and how the car held up.

I’m thinking about going this route to save up front costs on the car with just GM’s lowering kit and larger brakes.

What are other mods would be a must besides tires?

Thanks

[conemark]

While not V6's, a number of us have happily campaigned 4 cylinder turbos at autocross and DE's. The cars are well balanced and can be enjoyable so long as you aren't looking for V8 power.

In terms of modifications, that may be dictated by how involved you want to get. For autocrossing, many of us run in the SCCA "Street" category. Essentially a "stock" class, you are allowed a very small number of modifications such as changing one sway bar (front or rear), a +1 or -1 wheel diameter change (width must remain the same, offset can be within 7mm) and finally a shock absorber change.

If you want, give us more details about your car and we can chime in appropriately.

[AZIROC]

You should be fine. There are plenty of i4 / v6 guys on the track. I wouldn't worry about trying to upgrade right away. If anything, the first mod should be upgrading to a dot 4 high temp brake fluid. If u want to upgrade pads, that works to. But before you go down the upgrading rabbit hole, get out there and take the beginner course and then see what needs improved.

[d15b7]

Those are really good V6 engines. Very powerful for their weight. There’s a guy in my region that has an RX-8 with the Camaro V6 swap with 6speed in it and it is very fast and reliable.

[MatthewAMEL]

What AZIROC said. Get good brake fluid and pads on it and take it out.


You'll probably discover two things pretty quick:


Any Alpha chassis car is a blast to drive on track.


Your car has a LOT more capability than you thought it did.


I assume it's a M6?


I would guess the first issue you'll bump up against is keeping temps down. I don't think the V6's have cooling like the LT1/LT4 setups do.


Just keep an eye on your oil temps if you do stay out for 20+ minutes per session.

[Xyebo]

I drive a 1LS V6 base trim with 6-speed manual. To this day, I have done 9 track days and 4 autocrosses.


Key points of the V6 base chassis:

• If you have 18 inch wheels, the 245/50R18 size doesn't offer many performance tire options (P-Zero - okay but overprices, Continental Sport Contact and Bridgestone PotenzaSport will literally melt). What I did is buy take-off 20 inch wheels of a Camaro SS, which unlocked me many more performance options (but still no 200TW tire).
• Single-piston brake system. Since the brake pad footprint is small, you will generate a lot of stress on the tiny brakes. In addition, the aftermarket pad options do not have many track-ready solutions. Remedy: 1) go with OEM pads BUT watch for brake fade (not recommended); 2) buy the 4-piston brake option from GM ($$$); 3) put these pads from Dynamic Friction as I can attest they will withstand moderate tracking (front and rear)
• Engine. While I did not have massive failures, I have had one crankshaft position sensor and one thermostat go out on me. I am not sure if it was due to racing, driving like a moron, or due to maltreatment from previous owner, but those were simple fixes covered under warranty. Plus, you'll eventually feel like you should upgrade to an SS for more power
• Suspension: 1LE chassis has the SS suspension bits, but the non-1LE is still a very capable machine from base. If you look at the lap times tread in this forum, there is a V6 1LE fellow in California, and our lap times are within 1--2 seconds of each other, and on one track I am even ahead, haha. Also, do yourself a favor and go to a good alignment shop and ask them to put anywhere between -1.5 -- -2.0 degrees of camber up front and -1.2 -- -1.5 in the rear. The car will handle significantly better.

[Paulman]

Originally Posted by conemark

While not V6's, a number of us have happily campaigned 4 cylinder turbos at autocross and DE's. The cars are well balanced and can be enjoyable so long as you aren't looking for V8 power.

In terms of modifications, that may be dictated by how involved you want to get. For autocrossing, many of us run in the SCCA "Street" category. Essentially a "stock" class, you are allowed a very small number of modifications such as changing one sway bar (front or rear), a +1 or -1 wheel diameter change (width must remain the same, offset can be within 7mm) and finally a shock absorber change.

If you want, give us more details about your car and we can chime in appropriately.

Thanks for the help. My experience has strictly been with HPDE, but I'm thinking about trying autocross in the stock class you're talking about.

I'm thinking about ordering a V6 with the GM lowering kit and either the 4 piston or 6 piston factory brakes. I had a 1LE but had to sell it and back off to a more practical daily driver for work. I'm hoping a V6 can take care of that.

[Paulman]

Originally Posted by AZIROC

You should be fine. There are plenty of i4 / v6 guys on the track. I wouldn't worry about trying to upgrade right away. If anything, the first mod should be upgrading to a dot 4 high temp brake fluid. If u want to upgrade pads, that works to. But before you go down the upgrading rabbit hole, get out there and take the beginner course and then see what needs improved.

Thanks for the guidance - I've done quite a few HPDE over the years, but in this case I was wondering if a V6 with beefed up 4 piston or 6 piston brakes would hold up to your typical 25 minute HPDE session

Would the factory brake upgrade on a V6 be plenty ?

I had a 1LE for a while and got spoiled quickly for sure

[Paulman]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

What AZIROC said. Get good brake fluid and pads on it and take it out.


You'll probably discover two things pretty quick:


Any Alpha chassis car is a blast to drive on track.


Your car has a LOT more capability than you thought it did.


I assume it's a M6?


I would guess the first issue you'll bump up against is keeping temps down. I don't think the V6's have cooling like the LT1/LT4 setups do.


Just keep an eye on your oil temps if you do stay out for 20+ minutes per session.

You make excellent points. I'm coming from years of HPDE in an old Mustang and then a VW GTI. I had a 1LE for a while and it was light years of a jump.

I'm looking to order a V6 as a solid daily driver, provided there's no constraints for months on end.

Would you recommend the 4 piston brake upgrade that has the oil cooler? I see they have the 6 piston factory brake kit, but it doesn't let me select the oil cooler with that. I think the oil cooler is good insurance for a 25 minute session in the summer. The V6 1LE had the 4 piston brakes so I'm wondering if the 6 piston kit is overkill for the V6?

[Paulman]

Originally Posted by Xyebo

I drive a 1LS V6 base trim with 6-speed manual. To this day, I have done 9 track days and 4 autocrosses.


Key points of the V6 base chassis:

• If you have 18 inch wheels, the 245/50R18 size doesn't offer many performance tire options (P-Zero - okay but overprices, Continental Sport Contact and Bridgestone PotenzaSport will literally melt). What I did is buy take-off 20 inch wheels of a Camaro SS, which unlocked me many more performance options (but still no 200TW tire).
• Single-piston brake system. Since the brake pad footprint is small, you will generate a lot of stress on the tiny brakes. In addition, the aftermarket pad options do not have many track-ready solutions. Remedy: 1) go with OEM pads BUT watch for brake fade (not recommended); 2) buy the 4-piston brake option from GM ($$$); 3) put these pads from Dynamic Friction as I can attest they will withstand moderate tracking (front and rear)
• Engine. While I did not have massive failures, I have had one crankshaft position sensor and one thermostat go out on me. I am not sure if it was due to racing, driving like a moron, or due to maltreatment from previous owner, but those were simple fixes covered under warranty. Plus, you'll eventually feel like you should upgrade to an SS for more power
• Suspension: 1LE chassis has the SS suspension bits, but the non-1LE is still a very capable machine from base. If you look at the lap times tread in this forum, there is a V6 1LE fellow in California, and our lap times are within 1--2 seconds of each other, and on one track I am even ahead, haha. Also, do yourself a favor and go to a good alignment shop and ask them to put anywhere between -1.5 -- -2.0 degrees of camber up front and -1.2 -- -1.5 in the rear. The car will handle significantly better.

All excellent advice - really appreciate it.
If I order this, I was definitely thinking 20" wheels, brakes, and suspension kit from the factory. Been there already with doing that stuff myself with jackstands over the years - my knees are shot!

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Paulman

I'm thinking about ordering a V6 with the GM lowering kit and either the 4 piston or 6 piston factory brakes. I had a 1LE but had to sell it and back off to a more practical daily driver for work. I'm hoping a V6 can take care of that.

Just a heads up here: you can't add any post-production suspension kit and still run in Street (Stock) classes with SCCA. I'm sure any other sanctioning body would be similar. Even if the kit comes from GM, it's not a factory option but rather an aftermarket suspension kit. Same for the brakes.

[Paulman]

Originally Posted by Msquared

Just a heads up here: you can't add any post-production suspension kit and still run in Street (Stock) classes with SCCA. I'm sure any other sanctioning body would be similar. Even if the kit comes from GM, it's not a factory option but rather an aftermarket suspension kit. Same for the brakes.

Thanks for the heads up, Matt.

Even though this stuff is factory options, the upgrades aren't part of a "stock" class.

Would it be possible to just be in a time trial class in autocross? Forgive the newb question - just used to doing HPDE.

Paul

[AZIROC]

Originally Posted by Paulman

Thanks for the guidance - I've done quite a few HPDE over the years, but in this case I was wondering if a V6 with beefed up 4 piston or 6 piston brakes would hold up to your typical 25 minute HPDE session

Would the factory brake upgrade on a V6 be plenty ?

I had a 1LE for a while and got spoiled quickly for sure

Id assume they would, but I honestly don't know. Again, it would be a thing you would have to feel out while on the track. If anything, again id just swap out to a better brake fluid and maybe upgrade ur pads. Past that, id just drive and have fun. Stay in the lower (slower) group and just learn. Ask others if u can follow them to learn better lines. Hell, a good friend of mine is out there racing with us in his maxima. And he's keeping up just fine. Granted he is driving the ever loving shit out of it .. but he's doing it.


Also look for what racing clubs are in your area and their rules. Some have very strick rules as far as what mods you can and can not do. For me there are 2 solid racing groups. 1, where I'm at, is more based on driver skill. The other is based on the cars performance. Since I still consider myself a novice, id probably be a liability if I was in the other race group because I'm in a zl1 and id be going up against guys MUCH fast than me. Where the group im in now, I could go up a "level and still be fine.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Paulman

Thanks for the heads up, Matt.

Even though this stuff is factory options, the upgrades aren't part of a "stock" class.

I need to re-word what I wrote, because I forgot that you could option this stuff on the order sheet and it would show up as a factory option on your window sticker. The problem is that SCCA specifically bans the lowering kit and 6-piston brakes from the car in F Street class where the V6 and n/a-V8 Camaros go. Here is the wording from the Solo rule book:

Originally Posted by SCCA

Camaro (V6 & V8; excl. SS 1LE, ZL1, Suspension Lowering Kit, and Brembo® 6-piston Front Brake Kit) (2016-22)

OTOH, the V6 1LE is allowed in that same class. That's the way to go, IMO, especially if you want the big brakes. However, I think Chevy stopped building V6 and 2.0T Camaros with the 1LE package, so you'd have to find one used.

Would it be possible to just be in a time trial class in autocross? Forgive the newb question - just used to doing HPDE.

No worries about the questions. All autocrosses are by definition a time trial. It's all a competition where they try to minimize car advantages and put the emphasis on driver skill determining outcomes. The thing to do would probably be to look at classes for modified Camaros: SSR, STU, E Street Prepared, or CAM-C. Honestly, most people these days are looking at CAM-C if they don't want restrictions on mods. You could run any size wheel and tire you want as long as the tire has a UTQG treadwear rating of at least 200, and almost any other mod goes. Considering that power isn't really a major factor in most autocross courses, you might do pretty well in a lighter V6 Camaro with 10.5-11" wheels and tires. You could either order that factory lowering kit or - if you are serious about track and autocross performance - go with a full coilover setup and camber plates from a place like Vorshlag. That lowering kit factory option is $2100, which is probably half of what a really top-notch coilover kit would cost. That's the route I'd take. I would select the big brake option for track use, though. Maybe add aftermarket rear toe links so you could get more rear camber, too. That would be an interesting experiment!