BTR vs CHE Trunnion upgrade - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Silverado60 · 05-30-2020, 07:54 AM

BTR uses an upgraded needle bearing design over stock and CHE uses a bushing design.
It seems going to a bushing would be a step in the wrong direction
Am I missing something here?

Silverado60 · 05-30-2020, 08:00 AM

Just realized TSP’s kit is also a roller bearing design and it’s cheaper than CHE

Greenhornet2 · 05-30-2020, 11:25 AM

I haven't seen much for long term tests on the CHE but the bushings have grooves in them for oil so the idea is they float on the oil film. It's better than needle bearing riding on the trunion. The btr v2 is good because they use an inner race for the needle bearing to ride on and they are held in by clips rather than pressed into the rocker i believe. Comp uses clips but no inner race so the needle bearings wear into the trunion.

SSMY1LE · 05-30-2020, 01:51 PM

Do a search, plenty of unhappy people that have used the various needle bearing upgrades available.
These Straub Technologies bushings I used work great.
The wear is extremely minimal due to the fact the spring pressure is spread out over a much larger surface than the many minimal points of contact with needles.

Just the fact there are no needles to go wandering through the engine is a huge plus !

zz430camaro · 05-30-2020, 02:12 PM

I have not used the bushings but I have the BTR kit in my car with 12,000 miles on them with no issues. Although its needle bearings, they are captured and can never work loose like the factory ones.

Silverado60 · 05-30-2020, 03:03 PM

I understand that the factory ones have the potential of letting the bearings float thru the engine. Nobody wants that, but if you contain them with an upgraded kit like the BTR v2 it just seems odd to me that anyone would want to take a roller bearing out and replace it with a bushing. I’m not a high performance engine builder and maybe their is some science to it that I don’t understand
I think upgrading to a high performance oil pump would be a must to keep them oiled at all times

pnwdan · 05-30-2020, 11:34 PM

I have the TSP ones. I have about 12k on them now. I plan on pulling the covers and checking everything out .

When I did my cam swap, I pulled my covers to find two of my oem rocker trunions were trashed. Had three out of four bearing assemblies completely obliterated and needle bearings everywhere. Even had two halves of bearing races in the lifter trays. Car ran like a champ. The oem design is bad.

Silverado60 · 05-31-2020, 06:47 AM

Thats not good... luckily it doesn’t sound like they cause any damage. Your car is a ‘14 so now I’m wondering what I might find. I beat on it pretty good at times
Let me know what they look like when you pull a cover

Silverado60 · 05-31-2020, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSMY1LE

Do a search, plenty of unhappy people that have used the various needle bearing upgrades available.
These Straub Technologies bushings I used work great.
The wear is extremely minimal due to the fact the spring pressure is spread out over a much larger surface than the many minimal points of contact with needles.

Just the fact there are no needles to go wandering through the engine is a huge plus !

I took your advice and done a search for failures. Seems to be some pissed off people with all different types of rockers lol.
One guy said it best. on the internet good news travels slow and bad news is instant.
The needle bearing issues may be corrected with the new kits running on a inner race that’s pressed onto the trunion. This is the way I am leaning although the reports of a much quieter valve train and no needles with the bushing kit is something to consider

oldman14ss · 05-31-2020, 09:08 PM

I would also like to hear from long term bushing users.

RobZL1 · 05-31-2020, 09:26 PM

CHE in mine for 1 yr and 15k miles. No issues so far.

InFiD3ViL · 05-31-2020, 11:11 PM

As for longevity, I have no idea. I also went with them to avoid any issues with dealing with needle bearings in the future. I have searched and have not found anything bad about them yet.

Only 2500 miles on my CHE's so far. I figured the cost was worth it as they are highly regarded in the industry and for ease of install. The CHE bushings do not get pressed in as they are precision fit. Lube em up, pop them in, and set your snap rings. I actually enjoyed doing mine.

I had also considered the Straub and Smith Bros., but lots of people claim CHE is at the top of the list for quality, so I went with them.

pnwdan · 05-31-2020, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silverado60

Thats not good... luckily it doesn’t sound like they cause any damage. Your car is a ‘14 so now I’m wondering what I might find. I beat on it pretty good at times
Let me know what they look like when you pull a cover

There is. TSB from GM about it. It happens in all LS based engines. Even the trucks.

LaN- · 06-01-2020, 06:32 AM

Having picked out needle bearings from my oil pan I would recommend bushings.

05-30-2020, 07:54 AM	#1
Silverado60 Drives: 2010 camaro 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pa Posts: 238	BTR vs CHE Trunnion upgrade BTR uses an upgraded needle bearing design over stock and CHE uses a bushing design. It seems going to a bushing would be a step in the wrong direction Am I missing something here? __________________ Texas speed F-35 cam, rollmaster timing set, melling hp pump, ls2 chain damper, fluid damper 25% under drive, Che rocker bushings, tsp .660 lift valve springs, BBK CAI Amzoil filter with Phastek ww relocation and scoop, Gmpp axle back, Speed engineering 1 7/8" LT's no cats, Peak speed shop ported tb, NGK tr6, MSD wires, Amsoil Zrod wix, heritage grill, 1.25" BMR springs, MRR 228, Nitto Nt05,dyno tuned by complete street performance, elite eng catch can, clean side separator, Hurst shifter, Zl1 addon wickerbill

05-30-2020, 08:00 AM	#2
Silverado60 Drives: 2010 camaro 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pa Posts: 238	Just realized TSP’s kit is also a roller bearing design and it’s cheaper than CHE __________________ Texas speed F-35 cam, rollmaster timing set, melling hp pump, ls2 chain damper, fluid damper 25% under drive, Che rocker bushings, tsp .660 lift valve springs, BBK CAI Amzoil filter with Phastek ww relocation and scoop, Gmpp axle back, Speed engineering 1 7/8" LT's no cats, Peak speed shop ported tb, NGK tr6, MSD wires, Amsoil Zrod wix, heritage grill, 1.25" BMR springs, MRR 228, Nitto Nt05,dyno tuned by complete street performance, elite eng catch can, clean side separator, Hurst shifter, Zl1 addon wickerbill

05-30-2020, 11:25 AM	#3
Greenhornet2 Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS LS3 Whipple Join Date: May 2019 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,925	I haven't seen much for long term tests on the CHE but the bushings have grooves in them for oil so the idea is they float on the oil film. It's better than needle bearing riding on the trunion. The btr v2 is good because they use an inner race for the needle bearing to ride on and they are held in by clips rather than pressed into the rocker i believe. Comp uses clips but no inner race so the needle bearings wear into the trunion. __________________ Whipple 2.9 CAI ID1050x injectors ZL1 Pump JRE FPCM JMS Voltage booster JRE Rough Idle blower cam BTR .660 springs CHE trunnion kit 1 7/8 Speed Engineering Borla Atak JRE scoop 1.5" lowering springs BMR trailing arms and toe links Cradle inserts 704WHP 603WTQ 93 octane

05-30-2020, 01:51 PM	#4
SSMY1LE Drives: '14 1LE RS NPP Recaro Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: YYZ Posts: 1,676 View My Garage	Do a search, plenty of unhappy people that have used the various needle bearing upgrades available. These Straub Technologies bushings I used work great. The wear is extremely minimal due to the fact the spring pressure is spread out over a much larger surface than the many minimal points of contact with needles. Just the fact there are no needles to go wandering through the engine is a huge plus ! Attached Images __________________ '14 1LE, Recaro, Cammed, Headers, Hi Flows, CAI, Tuned, 486 RWHP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H57UfKCO0EY&feature=youtu.be

05-30-2020, 02:12 PM	#5
zz430camaro Drives: 2015 1LE Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,485	I have not used the bushings but I have the BTR kit in my car with 12,000 miles on them with no issues. Although its needle bearings, they are captured and can never work loose like the factory ones. __________________ 2015 1LE, TSP 225/236 113+3, VMAX Throttle Body, CAI with race scoop, GPI Ported Intake, Land Speed Stage 2 Heads, 1-7/8 headers, NPP exhaust, 25% Fluidampr, LT1-S Monster Clutch, 485 RWHP & 444 TQ

05-30-2020, 03:03 PM	#6
Silverado60 Drives: 2010 camaro 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pa Posts: 238	I understand that the factory ones have the potential of letting the bearings float thru the engine. Nobody wants that, but if you contain them with an upgraded kit like the BTR v2 it just seems odd to me that anyone would want to take a roller bearing out and replace it with a bushing. I’m not a high performance engine builder and maybe their is some science to it that I don’t understand I think upgrading to a high performance oil pump would be a must to keep them oiled at all times __________________ Texas speed F-35 cam, rollmaster timing set, melling hp pump, ls2 chain damper, fluid damper 25% under drive, Che rocker bushings, tsp .660 lift valve springs, BBK CAI Amzoil filter with Phastek ww relocation and scoop, Gmpp axle back, Speed engineering 1 7/8" LT's no cats, Peak speed shop ported tb, NGK tr6, MSD wires, Amsoil Zrod wix, heritage grill, 1.25" BMR springs, MRR 228, Nitto Nt05,dyno tuned by complete street performance, elite eng catch can, clean side separator, Hurst shifter, Zl1 addon wickerbill

05-30-2020, 11:34 PM	#7
pnwdan Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Washington Posts: 848	I have the TSP ones. I have about 12k on them now. I plan on pulling the covers and checking everything out . When I did my cam swap, I pulled my covers to find two of my oem rocker trunions were trashed. Had three out of four bearing assemblies completely obliterated and needle bearings everywhere. Even had two halves of bearing races in the lifter trays. Car ran like a champ. The oem design is bad. __________________ 2014 2SS/RS LS3/M6

05-31-2020, 06:47 AM	#8
Silverado60 Drives: 2010 camaro 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Pa Posts: 238	Thats not good... luckily it doesn’t sound like they cause any damage. Your car is a ‘14 so now I’m wondering what I might find. I beat on it pretty good at times Let me know what they look like when you pull a cover __________________ Texas speed F-35 cam, rollmaster timing set, melling hp pump, ls2 chain damper, fluid damper 25% under drive, Che rocker bushings, tsp .660 lift valve springs, BBK CAI Amzoil filter with Phastek ww relocation and scoop, Gmpp axle back, Speed engineering 1 7/8" LT's no cats, Peak speed shop ported tb, NGK tr6, MSD wires, Amsoil Zrod wix, heritage grill, 1.25" BMR springs, MRR 228, Nitto Nt05,dyno tuned by complete street performance, elite eng catch can, clean side separator, Hurst shifter, Zl1 addon wickerbill

05-31-2020, 09:08 PM	#10
oldman14ss Drives: 2014 1ss camaro Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: missouri Posts: 705	I would also like to hear from long term bushing users.

05-31-2020, 09:26 PM	#11
RobZL1 fo'shizZL1 Drives: 2017 ZL1 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: ATL Posts: 1,281	CHE in mine for 1 yr and 15k miles. No issues so far. __________________ 2017 ZL1 M6 Black \| Maggie 2650 // 103TB // Big Gulp Past Rides- 2014 ZL1 M6 Red Hot \| Tons of mods 2004 CTS-V M6 Silver \| Many mods 1995 Corvette M6 Torch Red \| A few more mods 1992 Camaro M5 White \| A few mods

05-31-2020, 11:11 PM	#12
InFiD3ViL Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Spring Hill, FL Posts: 4,575	As for longevity, I have no idea. I also went with them to avoid any issues with dealing with needle bearings in the future. I have searched and have not found anything bad about them yet. Only 2500 miles on my CHE's so far. I figured the cost was worth it as they are highly regarded in the industry and for ease of install. The CHE bushings do not get pressed in as they are precision fit. Lube em up, pop them in, and set your snap rings. I actually enjoyed doing mine. I had also considered the Straub and Smith Bros., but lots of people claim CHE is at the top of the list for quality, so I went with them. __________________ 2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI

06-01-2020, 06:32 AM	#14
LaN- Drives: 2014 SS Convertible Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 175	Having picked out needle bearings from my oil pan I would recommend bushings. __________________ Engine: LSA Conversion, Ported Heads, 1 7/8 headers, VMS 2.5 Cam, Roto Fab intake, ADM Scoop. BMR engine mounts, 3.91 628/525 Suspension: Koni orange, (BMR everything) 1" drop springs, toe rods, trailer arms, non adjustable LCR, FE4 sway bars, sub frame connectors, delrin sub frame bushing and upper control arm bushings. Front bushings.