new BMW M4 vs Z28

[McRat]

I think it's flattering that BMW decided to use 2001 Z06 style rims.

A little dated today, but certainly makes it look faster!

I thought the "suppository" styling died already. Didn't BMW get the memo? All cars do not have to look like a second gen Taurus anymore.

[KRich2587]

On track I eat M3's all day in my 1LE and they all come up and ask me how I'm killing there 80k car lol

[DarkneSS]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

3,351 pounds, 425 hp ,408tq from 1850. Are you sure a 1LE is comparable. With what Germany is spitting out these days just realize that their cars are actually faster than the average car with similar power figures from yesteryear. I personally think this is more Z28 territory.

Here is the thing, it won't have as much tire as the 1LE and I haven't seen anything to suggest the brakes will be any better. Its also turbo charged so around a track its going to get hot quick. After a few lap times it will get slower while the 1LE will not.
It may well be faster than a 1LE but not by much, which speaks volumes to how awesome the 1LE is.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

Here is the thing, it won't have as much tire as the 1LE and I haven't seen anything to suggest the brakes will be any better. Its also turbo charged so around a track its going to get hot quick. After a few lap times it will get slower while the 1LE will not.
It may well be faster than a 1LE but not by much, which speaks volumes to how awesome the 1LE is.

Well the tire thing is not quite what it seems. 255/35/19 and 275/35/19 Michelin SS. 275 Mich SS tire is actually better than the Goodyear 285 in terms of grip wet and dry also this is a lighter car so the threadwidth is more efficient for the M4s weight than that of the 1LE. Plus M cars comes factory with goodies we have to mod on our cars for example the E9 series came factory with solid cradle mounts, we needed Pfadt for that.

[prostcj]

Price of a z/28 and performance of an 1le. That's my prediction.

[toehead93]

0-60 and 1/4 mile the M4 will have a big advantage due to its weight but on the track the 1LE will reign supreme, just as the Z28 can hang on the track with the likes of the GTR and Porsche 911S than run under 3 second 0-60 times.

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by toehead93

0-60 and 1/4 mile the M4 will have a big advantage due to its weight but on the track the 1LE will reign supreme, just as the Z28 can hang on the track with the likes of the GTR and Porsche 911S than run under 3 second 0-60 times.

You guys are seriously underestimating this car. First of all, weight is even more important on track than in a straight line. Second, this car is supposed to be almost 400 lbs lighter than the current model, make more power, and it will have a broader torque curve because of the turbo setup. Also the idea of a modern twin turbo straight 6 having heat soak problems on track is unrealistic. The 1LE isn't magical. A much lighter car with similar power and M handling is going to pose a problem for the 1LE.

[L99CAMA2011]

Originally Posted by trademaster

You guys are seriously underestimating this car. First of all, weight is even more important on track than in a straight line. Second, this car is supposed to be almost 400 lbs lighter than the current model, make more power, and it will have a broader torque curve because of the turbo setup. Also the idea of a modern twin turbo straight 6 having heat soak problems on track is unrealistic. The 1LE isn't magical. A much lighter car with similar power and M handling is going to pose a problem for the 1LE.

I agree. Don't know why they think the M3 will have an issue against a 1LE when in the real world on real road courses the current model is a handful for a stock Camaro non Z28 or ZL-1.

[STOCK1SC]

Originally Posted by trademaster

You guys are seriously underestimating this car. First of all, weight is even more important on track than in a straight line. Second, this car is supposed to be almost 400 lbs lighter than the current model, make more power, and it will have a broader torque curve because of the turbo setup. Also the idea of a modern twin turbo straight 6 having heat soak problems on track is unrealistic. The 1LE isn't magical. A much lighter car with similar power and M handling is going to pose a problem for the 1LE.

Thank God somebody gets it!

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

3,351 pounds, 425 hp ,408tq from 1850. Are you sure a 1LE is comparable. With what Germany is spitting out these days just realize that their cars are actually faster than the average car with similar power figures from yesteryear. I personally think this is more Z28 territory.

By this logic the GT500 should beat the ZL1 around VIR no?
CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1 - 580hp, 4111lbs, 7.1lb/hp......2:57.5
FORD SHELBY GT500 - 662hp, 3896lb, 5.9lb/hp.............3:00.6

Lets look at other "M" cars Germany is spitting out these days around VIR...
2013 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1........2:57.5
2013 CHEVROLET CAMARO SS 1LE...3:01.5
2009 CADILLAC CTS-V SEDAN.........3:04.0
2011 CADILLAC CTS-V COUPE.........3:04.2
2013 BMW M6..............................3:04.7
2013 BMW M5..............................3:05.2
2010 BMW M3 COUPE....................3:05.4
2012 BMW 1-SERIES M..................3:06.6

For comparisons sake the "M" cars have a lot of ground to make up. Not a single "M" car has ever beaten the V twins in the lightning lap, more or less the track-focused Chevy's.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

Now, I fully expect the new M3/M4 to beat the V and 1LE times above and this would restore some faith in the roundel following, but BMW has done nothing in the last decade to impress me. The E90 M3 was a fine car to drive on the track but its lack of low end torque made daily-driving a disappointing experience.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by trademaster

You guys are seriously underestimating this car. First of all, weight is even more important on track than in a straight line. Second, this car is supposed to be almost 400 lbs lighter than the current model, make more power, and it will have a broader torque curve because of the turbo setup. Also the idea of a modern twin turbo straight 6 having heat soak problems on track is unrealistic. The 1LE isn't magical. A much lighter car with similar power and M handling is going to pose a problem for the 1LE.

Sources for this nonsense? The E90 Coupe weighs 3,483lbs. You really expect this car to weigh 3,000lbs in U.S. spec?


http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/m4#
"No curb weights were provided, but we expect the M4 to weigh in at 3400 pounds. The Bavarians’ claim that the new engine is just 20 pounds lighter than the V-8, so the remaining 155 pounds of savings comes from structural changes, lightweight seats, and a liberal use of carbon fiber—including for the roof panels."

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m4/2015/
"BMW says the new powertrain, along with the M4's curb weight of around 3,300 pounds, will deliver zero to 62 mph in 4.1 seconds"

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2014...news/140119900
"BMW says the M4 will weigh 3,300 pounds while the M3 weighs 3,351 pounds."

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...m4_first_look/
3300-3400 lb (est)

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/11/2...4-coupe-video/
"The M4 Coupe, weighing in at 3,300 pounds, is 176 pounds lighter than the outgoing M3, too."

A luxury sport sedan weighing 3,300lbs is excellent. I suspect the U.S. spec will be around 3,400lb but still great. This is a far cry from 3,000lbs though. Sure it will likely beat the 1LE (at twice the price) but it won't be a ZL1 or Z/28 competitor on a track.

[McRat]

A far as teh CTS-V, it is now VERY long in the tooth by performance sedan standards with sales starting in late 2008, and no significant changes yet.

If the M4 is a "future" model, it needs to measured against the new V, which is currently delayed, and GM is staying tight lipped about it.

The M4 will be in the price segment as the V, but wild-ass guesses target CTS-V with a weight reduction, 600HP, and a more advance suspension.

I do like how C&D cites the revolutionary electric power steering as being something BMW has invented, or even uses today.

Dudes, EVEN Cobalts came with programmable electric power assist steering, and the Camaro has really advanced system available TODAY. Old school now. Hyd power steering is becoming like drum brakes.

[McRat]

The 2015 CTS-V is built and testing, but nobody is saying anything:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/04/...-good-company/

[McRat]

And the ATS-V is actually GM's answer to the new M3/M4 cars:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2013/06/...3-in-the-rain/

Last time GM released a new CTS-V it caught the Germans sleeping. It trounced every 4 door they could come up with, and at 1/2 the price. It's "ring" times were done by Heinricy in the Automatic, in Drive, not paddle shifting it. Basically in Soccer Mom mode it vaporized Germany's best.