Why no E85?

[JCunningham]

these motors respond very well to E85. Why was it not added to the Camaro?

[billyspeed]

Following
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[TDS]

ME TOO!!!

[GP86]

I'd definitely like real info on this. Is the entire fuel system capable of handling E85? I have specifically not attempted any E85 mods because without the Flex Fuel designation, I have to expect that something in the system was not validated to the higher ethanol content.

Or, was it strictly an emissions & fuel economy thing, and E85 is actually OK to use?

[GP86]

Originally Posted by Lt1z350

We have put it on many GM cars that didn't come with it. Ats 2.0t camaro 2.0t atsv 3.6tt older zl1 ctsv 6.2 just to make a few and all responded very well.

I need to know that it is written into the specs of the fuel system components, not that someone managed to put a liquid into a tank and nothing bad happened within a short period of time.

I appreciate your thoughts, but there is a lot at stake here! Many system components in a vehicle line are shared throughout an OEM's fleet, so I would guess that the fuel system components of the Camaro were validated to run flex fuel just like they were in several other GM cars. But I'm not willing to commit to potential long term damage of my car now just for a few extra jollies. It is very possible that just 1 or 2 parts in the fuel system do not have the flex fuel rating. There must be a reason that the Camaro was not built as a FlexFuel vehicle and I am very interested to understand why this was. I am going on the hunch that it would somehow reduce the overall fuel economy but I don't have any evidence of this. I am going to try to do some research myself while we wait for Big Al to answer.

[JCunningham]

I dont see why the fuel economy thing would make a difference if its capable of getting the required fuel mileage with one fuel then what's it matter if it doesn't with a different fuel when it can run both and one produces fewer emissions doing it.

[JCunningham]

Im thinking its going to be a warranty issue. an extra 40hp probably 20hp on a epa tune might be more then they want to warranty.

[GP86]

Originally Posted by JCunningham

I dont see why the fuel economy thing would make a difference if its capable of getting the required fuel mileage with one fuel then what's it matter if it doesn't with a different fuel when it can run both and one produces fewer emissions doing it.

I honestly do not know, just a hunch. But, we know that FlexFuel nets you fewer MPG compared to gasoline. There must be something in the rating from the EPA that takes this into account.

If you get less mileage on FlexFuel, but you have far less emissions, does it cancel itself out? It could. I am going to try to find this out.

Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia that sheds a little bit of light. I still need to dive in a bit deeper.

For the fuel economy calculation for alternative fuel vehicles, a gallon of alternative fuel is deemed to contain 15% fuel (which is approximately the amount of gasoline in a gallon of E85) [22] as an incentive to develop alternative fuel vehicles.[23] The mileage for dual-fuel vehicles, such as E85 capable models and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles, is computed as the average of its alternative fuel rating—divided by 0.15 (equal to multiplying by 6.666) -- and its gasoline rating. Thus an E85-capable vehicle that gets 15 mpg on E-85 and 25 mpg on gasoline might logically be rated at 20 mpg.

But in fact the average, for CAFE purposes, despite perhaps only one percent of the fuel used in E85-capable vehicles is actually E85, is computed as 100 mpg for E-85 and the standard 25 mpg for gasoline, or 62.5 mpg.[12] However, the total increase in a manufacturer's average fuel economy rating due to dual-fueled vehicles cannot exceed 1.2mpg.[24] Section 32906 reduces the increase due to dual-fueled vehicles to 0 through 2020. Electric vehicles are also incentivized by the 0.15 fuel divisor, but are not subject to the 1.2 mpg cap like dual-fuel vehicles.

[Martinjlm]

My understanding from when I worked at GM was that there are multiple elements to E85. One is the engine prep and hardening. Another is proper fuel line material and another is proper fuel pump material and design.

Small Block Engine team has made all Small Block V8s capable of using E85 with no damage to the engine. That does not, however, mean that the car the engine goes into is also sufficiently prepped (fuel lines and fuel pump).

So, if and why Camaro does not have E85 capable fuel lines and/or pumps and any other components that may be required is a question better left to Al and his team. I expect cost would be a factor. In my experience, there was additional cost to get all the components required for E85 use.