What Does This Tell Us?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The 6th gen Camaro is the best overall performance car in most of the trim levels in its segment (of the 3 pony cars). For the money, I'd argue nothing can touch the overall performance offered by a ZL1 and on down to the SS 1LE as well.

Starting at the V8 entry and moving up (I realize some of these trims aren't sold anymore, but they are recent enough):

SS > base GT and 5.7 Hemi Challenger
SS > GT PP1 and 392 Challenger
SS 1LE > Mach 1 and GT PP2
ZL1 > GT350 and = base GT500 (ZL1 handles better, stops better, grips better, steers better, has a better sorted chassis, and has more standard tech and features, is ~250 lbs lighter, but is a little slower in a straight line above 60 mph - best stock e.t. of 10.6 sec for the GT500 vs 10.9 in the ZL1)
ZLE < GT500 CFTP because the CFTP is about as fast around a track despite being a more comfortable ride, and quicker in a straight line. But a lot more expensive.

The A10 GT with 3.55 rear end is slightly quicker than an A10 SS (1 or 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile), but not enough to offset how much better the SS performs in other performance metrics compared to a base GT. M6 to M6 the SS is generally quicker than the GT, in addition to handling better.

Great post. I agree and would add that the Camaro hasn’t had a performance upgrade and still stand out. SS static since 2016, 1LE since 2017, etc.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Puddin

Guess it isn't dumb to Dodge because just about every commercial they put out has some kind of hot rodding/drag racing. I don't hear any news of them axing their car.

Sadly… they are all in decline. Dodge does better at branding but interest is dwindling :(

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Sadly… they are all in decline. Dodge does better at branding but interest is dwindling :(

Attachment 1082058

Interesting charts. A few observations:

Mustang and Challenger both had sales bumps in 2015 when they introduced new gen (S550) and a refresh with the Challenger (which also coincided with the Hellcat).

Somewhat surprisingly, the Camaro did not have a bump in sales in 2016 with the 6th gen Camaro. It did take a tiny bit of the Mustang market share, but Mustang got that back with the refresh in 2018.

Camaro and Challenger have been going in opposite directions with the % market share, with the Mustang remaining mostly flat as a whole (although it had a big bump at the Camaro's expense in 2015).

I don't understand how Dodge has managed to have an upward market share trajectory with a car that hasn't had a new gen since 2008 when it was re-introduced. Add to that the refresh in 2015 wasn't really that significant. Is it because of the Hellcat and Redeye and other continual updates made to the high end versions that keep people interested that buy the lower versions?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Dodge drops Hellcats and 392s in everything and continually evolve the Challenger and Charger. Print, digital and commercial advertising everywhere. Discounts, financing and lease options

Dodge cares. GM/Chevy doesn't and it shows

That can not be underestimated. Dodge was extremely aggressive with their lease rates. Guy on my softball team who is not a car guy at all, leased a Challenger.

Originally Posted by s346k

6g is an enthusiasts car, doing everything exceptionally well except be a normal car. normal people aren't going to put up with it. it dies bc despite what people said, they are not near as interested in doing car things as they lead on.

This ^ Everyone needs to remember the V8 trims make up around 35% of the total sales in the segment. Base engine cars do the heavy volume lifting, and for the most part those buyers won't care about performance numbers.

So styling is always subjective and if you take the performance out of the equation, what does the Camaro do better than Mustang or Challenger. Less interior room, pitiful trunk and the always fun to talk about visibility.

[s346k]

Originally Posted by Vaska

The Camaro will probably be my last “car guy” sporty car because I’m just not into driving these types of vehicles anymore.

so... why did you buy a camaro? you've attempted to qualify an opinion with your experience. you bought a car you're not into (by your own admission)...?

i've said it a million times and i'll say it again

there are guys that like cars
there are car guys

at the very least, acknowledge and accept where you (impersonal) are before asserting a bold opinion. it makes things so much easier.

[Modernmusclecar]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

To be fair, if that friend had a base 5.7 liter V8 Challenger, they would walk right by that, too. If one of those Camaros was instead a ZL1 they would probably check it out before getting to the Hellcat. At car meets I see plenty of people stopping to take a pic or try to get a peek in my ZL1's interior.

That's just how these things work. The high horsepower cars attract attention. The base model V8 trims, not so much. Same goes for Mustang GT. At car meets, mine was a dime a dozen; despite being very nice, it didn't draw a crowd or get people checking it out much (I got some compliments away from car meets, though). Never did I see someone snap a pic of my GT in the wild. I've seen it plenty of times with my ZL1.

A buddy just sold his 392 Scatpack. It also garnered alot of compliments at the meets. Peoples opinions are not fact. ..that platform although old still generates a ton of interest. That old school look is still very popular.Ive seen way more Hellcats the 6th gen Zl1s. A co worker just to delivery if a 2021 Zl1 1le last week.I havnt hit the cruise nights with him yet tho...cant wait to see it.

[Modernmusclecar]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Sadly… they are all in decline. Dodge does better at branding but interest is dwindling :(

Attachment 1082058

The Camaro went from leading the pack for 5 straight years to being irrelevent now. God damn thats sad to see.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by s346k

there are guys that like cars
there are car guys

And then there are self righteous a-holes who think what they do to their own car makes them better than everyone else who doesn't do that.

By your definition, because I don't plan to modify my 2SS that has everything I want already, I'm not worthy? Guess I should cancel my order....

[Vaska]

Originally Posted by JKSully

And then there are self righteous a-holes who think what they do to their own car makes them better than everyone else who doesn't do that.

By your definition, because I don't plan to modify my 2SS that has everything I want already, I'm not worthy? Guess I should cancel my order....

Seems like an idiot to me, just ignore him.