What is the ZL1 Really?

[shaffe]

Because of the suspension and the tires and the brakes. The ZL1 suspension is that good that it can be pushed harder in the corners, thats what makes it the better track car. It really is all in the suspension. The GT500 still gets through the corners pretty damn fast, and yes it does make up its time in the straights, but where does the camaro make up its time in the corners only. You are trying to say the GT500 is one trick bc it only makes up time in the straights, yet the Camaro only makes up time in the corners. If teh GT500 was slower on most of the road track tests, or if all the reviews said it had the same problem as previous GT500s to where it was super wild, squirrely and couldtn put the power down I would agree as well. but most of the reviews show the GT500 posting faster lap times, or right there with the ZL1. They also say they are super impressed at how well it puts that power down. That to me shows its more than capable on a road course. It also shows just how advanced the MRC in the ZL1 is.

[camarofreak]

If i would have to bet which car is better on the track i would say the ZL1 is. Because yes the gt500 beat the ZL1 on the track when motortrend tested them but that was if i remember right it was just for a lap i could be wrong maybe it was 2 laps but i think the 3rd the ZL1 beat. And a race on the track is not just one lap. The best way i think and the coolest way to figure this out would be to take them both to the Nurburing and see what happens.

[MrGood]

Another gt 500 vs zl1! Leggo!

I'm to the point around here where I'm so sick of Tampa because all it is is a bunch of slammed Hondas with fartcans that when I'm at a meet or a local "modded car hotspot" that I'm happy to see any muscle cars. I hate both zl1s and gt 500s. Because I can't afford either :p

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by radz28

I don't know that I'd consider ZL1 a sports car. I wouldn't call it a pony car. I can't really resolve to call it a muscle car, because it's not simple enough. When I think about it's active suspension, exhaust, steering, etc., that doesn't mean simple to me. I wouldn't consider the GT500 a muscle car either, but it's more muscle than anything. ZL1 is only a few hundred pounds lighter than my 4Runner, and that's not pony car, too me.

If you're looking for a fairly simple tag to hang on either of these cars, it's probably something like "supercar on (relatively) a beer budget". Push the performance envelope in all directions using brute force methods when necessary, and bring it in within reach of more people than just those with exotic-car amounts of disposable income.


Re: the GT500 and its handling - as good as it is in absolute terms, it's even more impressive once you stop to consider its 57/43 weight distribution (and even with that poorish weight distribution to cope with, the front tires are still 20mm narrower than the rears, which themselves are undersize). If it's a one-trick pony, then for it to be doing alright in the other arenas it's got to be doing so in spite of itself rather than because.


Norm

[camarofreak]

Originally Posted by MrGood

Another gt 500 vs zl1! Leggo!

I'm to the point around here where I'm so sick of Tampa because all it is is a bunch of slammed Hondas with fartcans that when I'm at a meet or a local "modded car hotspot" that I'm happy to see any muscle cars. I hate both zl1s and gt 500s. Because I can't afford either :p

Just because you can't afford a ZL1 or GT500 doesn't mean you should hate them. It means you should make a goal to get one.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by camarofreak

If i would have to bet which car is better on the track i would say the ZL1 is. Because yes the gt500 beat the ZL1 on the track when motortrend tested them but that was if i remember right it was just for a lap i could be wrong maybe it was 2 laps but i think the 3rd the ZL1 beat. And a race on the track is not just one lap. The best way i think and the coolest way to figure this out would be to take them both to the Nurburing and see what happens.

I agree about the zl1 being the better track car, it has better suspension, brakes etc. all I'm saying is the gt500 is no one trick pony

[MrGood]

Originally Posted by camarofreak

Just because you can't afford a ZL1 or GT500 doesn't mean you should hate them. It means you should make a goal to get one.

I don't seriously hate them. But now to get flamed if I was going to spend that much money on a car I'd save I'd keep saving until I could bankroll a Nissan GT-R or a Corvette and convert it to a factory five GTM.

[daveagogo1]

It's a pony car period. The Camaro never was nor will ever be a Muscle car as it has never been built on a 4 door platform. The new Challenger is and could be classified as a muscle car as it is built on a 4 door platform with a big motor.

[camarofreak]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I agree about the zl1 being the better track car, it has better suspension, brakes etc. all I'm saying is the gt500 is no one trick pony

I agree that the GT500 is not a one trick pony because it does compete with the ZL1 on a track quite well.

[camarofreak]

Originally Posted by daveagogo1

It's a pony car period. The Camaro never was nor will ever be a Muscle car as it has never been built on a 4 door platform. The new Challenger is and could be classified as a muscle car as it is built on a 4 door platform with a big motor.

How was the Camaro never a muscle car?

[HumanWiki]

Plenty of people don't consider the Camaro family a Muscle car.. I'm one of them. It was created to compete directly with the Mustang, which created the Pony car segment. People just don't like saying Pony car because of the Ford tie in.. But, like it or not, ALL Camaro/Firebird owners owe their car's existence to Ford.

Muscle cars were things like Chevelle, Charger, GTO, 442, etc.

Though, I disagree on the 4 door platform. The 5th Gen is based on Zeta, which does include 4 door variants.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by camarofreak

How was the Camaro never a muscle car?

It was not built on a 4-door platform or available with a 4-door option, ever.

Edit: Like most people my age (who were of driving age when the originals first hit the street) I take the word 'never' as used here to imply whether the Camaro had ever been associated with a 4-door platform in the past. Not to its current platform. Today's Camaro could perhaps be called a "musclecar", but to do so would take it out of direct competition with the Mustang. Arguably, a case of shooting yourself in the foot.

The terms 'ponycar' and 'musclecar' refer to the general body configuration. Not to the performance potential. Lots of younger people don't understand this, and simply assume that in order to have performance it has to be 'muscle'. Not true.

The original ponycars were the Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Cougar, Challenger, Barracuda, and Javelin. Initially based on the compact chassis of the day.

On the muscle car side was Chevelle, GTO, Charger, Road Runner, GTX, Nova, 442, GS, etc. Based on intermediate sedans and hence larger and heavier than the ponycars.


Norm

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Not built on a 4-door platform or with a 4-door option, ever.

That is half incorrect. Zeta most certainly can be and is a 4 door platform.

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by daveagogo1

It's a pony car period. The Camaro never was nor will ever be a Muscle car as it has never been built on a 4 door platform. The new Challenger is and could be classified as a muscle car as it is built on a 4 door platform with a big motor.

Eh? Zeta is anot a 4 door platform?

EDIT: Oops....wiki beat me to it! With that in mind, I'll add that Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are about the closest thing to a true definition of an American "muscle car" as you can get in this day and age.